[danm55]

I was just about to load some 6.5 jap and the lee data says to use 39 grains to start of h4831for a 120 grain bullet. but 39 grains almost fills the cartridge. Is that ok? The max charge of 41 grains doesnt even fit in the case so im not sure if their numbers are too high.

 

[MIKE WISKEY]

case cap. varies depending on the make of the brass, that and 4831 is very forgiving. my sierra book doesn't even recommend h4831 for the 6.5 jap, it is a bit on the 'slow' side for sutch a small case.

 

[KN4UPT]

4064 and 3031 work best for this cartridge in my experience
Use either of those powders and and a Speer hot-cor 140gr bullet for reasonably affordable and quite accurate plinking

 

[toot]

case cap. varies depending on the make of the brass, that and 4831 is very forgiving. my sierra book doesn't even recommend h4831 for the 6.5 jap, it is a bit on the 'slow' side for sutch a small case.

what is the difference in h4831 & 4831 powder?

 

[toot]

is IMR 4831 the same?

 

[Venom6]

No, IMR 4831 and H 4831 are not the same, though both now are marketed through Hodgdon. The "Annual Manual" does not have data listed for the 6.5x50 Japanese, but does show data for the .260 Rem.; under that listing they show a maximum charge under a 140 Nosler Partition of 45.7 grains H4831 and 44.0 grains IMR4831. This is NOT a suggested load for your rifle, just pointing out the difference between powder charges in a cartridge of the same bore diameter and roughly similar case capacity.

Mike Venturino, in his book "Shooting World War II Small Arms," says on page 127 that most Arisakas have large chambers, so case life is not great.

120 grains is a bit light for that cartridge; War 2 cartridges were loaded with 139 grainers (and when introduced in 1897 the bullet was a 162-grain roundnose); the point being your rifle might or might not want to zero with the 120's. Neither of the 4831s is optimal (a bit too slow for the case capacity) but can work. Venturino shows 39.0 H4831 under a 140 Hornady Spire Point giving 2,415 fps out of the rifle (31" barrel) and 2,192 fps out of the 19" carbine. Good luck.

 

[Gregg]

30.5 grains IMR-3031 under a 140 grain bullet is the ticket, for a near Japanese Military load duplication.

 

[danm55]

Thats thats good info. I really just wanted to use this old h4831 i have but since it fills the entire case idk lol. Ive never had a case fill completely up like that. Mayb ill try to reduce it to 36,37 grains and just try it. I have brand new 3031 and 4064 too but just wanted to use up the old powder. I deff need to get more bullets tho. I will try to get 140 grain round nose flat base

 

[danm55]

Idk how old this powder is. It looks like early 80s to early 90s not sure

 

[jjjxlr8]

I've loaded some long tracer bullets before where the IMR 4895 propellant crunched a bit when seating the bullets. That was a bit weird but the propellant weight was at the lower end of the range and the rounds performed fine. The point is, it's OK if the propellant fills the case completely as long as you are using the correct weights and type.

 

[ammolab]

I have brand new 3031 and 4064 too

You have both those powders…”NEW”?
These days, how does that Happen?

 

[danm55]

You have both those powders…”NEW”?
These days, how does that Happen?

I was at my local gun store and they happened to get a bunch when it was still only 30$ a lb. I just bought every kind that they had that was useful for every type of gun lol. They just got some imr 4064 and us 869 but thats it. And they want 50$ for the 4064

 

[Venom6]

Thats thats good info. I really just wanted to use this old h4831 i have but since it fills the entire case idk lol. Ive never had a case fill completely up like that. Mayb ill try to reduce it to 36,37 grains and just try it. I have brand new 3031 and 4064 too but just wanted to use up the old powder. I deff need to get more bullets tho. I will try to get 140 grain round nose flat base

So ,you can compress the 4831; within reason it won't matter, and at close range (say within 50 yards) the different bullet weight and reduced velocity won't matter for plinking. To be clear, the WWII military loads used 139 gr. spitzers, not round noses; the RN bullets were nominally 160 grains, loaded in WWI. HTH.

 

[Kawicrash]

I think Lee just re publishes data from other sources, but directly from Hodgdon site:

 

[Kawicrash]

 

[DocAV]

The Type 30 ( 1897) used the 162 grain RN, the Type38 ( 1905) used the Spitzer 139grn.
Third after France ( Balle D, 1898) Germany (S Patrone, 1903-05) and Before US ( M1906)
We are making a 162 Profile Italian in 6,5mm (6,72 bullet Diameter) RN, recessed base, in solid CNCBrass...it works in Carcanos,( Further tests when rain lets up) and Will load in Dutch, Greek, and Japanese chambers; still got to try Swede and Vergueiro. CNC weight is 136 grain...Testing in Good condition Milsurps later as the Rain Eases and Flood on Range goes down ( Big Wet in Qld)
Release in Dec-January....US buyers need ATFE Form 6 for import of " Ammunition Components"
Best Group Buy, or Dealer ( lots of 500 or 1000) for shipping and documentation.
WLYK when ready to ship.

Doc AV
AVBTechServices
Brisbane Australia

 

[Deerhound3]

I have used "Compressed loads" on other cartridges and don't care for it. If you do not crimp, the bullet will often back out of the case, sometimes quite a bit. Something to keep an eye on.

 

[1886lebel]

Here is my load data for the 6,5x50SR mm that simulate the original ammo specifications of the different service bullets, Spitzer and Round Nose the Japanese used.
I tested these in my Japanese Type 38 Rifle (三八式歩兵銃 / sanhachi-shiki hoheijū) No Series / Serial Number 55XXXX that was made at the Imperial Japanese Army Tokyo Arsenal (日本帝国陸軍東京砲兵工廠 / Nippon Teikoku Rikugun Tokyo Hōheikōshō) located in Koishikawa (小石川), that was a bring-back by my grandfather Captain Vernon C. Hoyt that he had acquired in Japan in 1946. Each test load was fired in two successive five-shot strings from the prone supported using a front rest at a range of 200 meters using a Beta Master Shooting Chrony® chronograph which was located 15 feet ahead of the muzzle to measure the velocity of the bullet. All test loads above were developed at the Albuquerque Shooting Range Park which is located at an elevation of 6,009 feet above sea level.
I personally found that my particular rifle does not like boat-tailed bullets, they just do not group or shoot well at all.

"All reloading data contained on this post is to be use at your own risk and any failures, mishaps resulting from this data will not be directed towards me or this group”, again these are be “USED AT YOUR OWN RISK", this should be used as a guide to help develop your own loads. I am not responsible for any accidents for using this reloading data.

6,5 x 50 SR mm Japanese Loads:
Cartridge Case: Norma or Privi Partizan Užice
Cartridge Case Length: 1.980
Primers Used: CCI Large Rifle # 200, CCI Large Rifle BR2, CCI Large Rifle # 34, Remington 9 1/2 Large Rifle, Winchester Large Rifle / Standard

Spitzer Bullet: Original bullet was.262 diameter, weighing 139 gr.(9,0g) with a flat-base

Hornady .264 140 grain ‘Interlock’ Spitzer Soft-Point / Flat-Base (BC: .490 / SD: .287)
Nosler .264 140 grain ‘Partition’ Spitzer Soft-Point / Flat-Base (BC: .498 / SD: .287)
Speer .264 140 grain ‘Hot-Core’ Spitzer Soft-Point / Flat-Base (BC: .498 / SD: .287)

Powder:
IMR 3031 / 31.5 grs. = 2500 FPS / 770 MPS
IMR 4064 / 33.0 grs. = 2500 FPS / 770 MPS
IMR 4166 / 34.0 grs. = 2500 FPS / 770 MPS
IMR 4831 / 37.3 grs. = 2350 FPS (Reduced Gunso Load)
H 4831 / 37.3 grs. = 2350 FPS (Reduced Gunso Load)
Overall Length: 2.985 to 2.990 (original length of complete cartridge is 2.995)
Note: When using this OL, the Hornady .264 140 grain ‘Interlock’ Spitzer Soft-Point / Flat-Base will not be to crimping groove on them, they will be much longer outside of the cartridge case.

Round Nose Bullet: Original bullet was.262 diameter, weighing 160 to 163 gr. (10,4 g) with a flat-base ...
The Japanese military switched from round nose bullet to the spitzer bullet in September of 1907

Hornady .264 160 gr. 'Interlock' Round Nose Soft-Point / Flat-Base (BC: .283 / SD: .328)
Norma .264 156 gr. Round Nose Soft Point / Flat-Base (BC: .283 / SD: .328)

Powder:
IMR 3031 / 30.7 grs. = 2300 FPS / 701 MPS
IMR 4064 / 32.1 grs. = 2300 FPS / 701 MPS
Overall Length: The original length of complete cartridge made by Japanese was 2.995 and the ones made by the British by Royal Laboratory and Kynoch was 2,955
I could not get to these OL with my seater die (RCBS) with the plug all the way up in it so my OL is shorter but is spot on to the Norma OL of the commercial ammo they sell for the 156 gr. Round Nose Soft Point which is 2,855

200 meters on 6/19/21, the target was a steel plate painted with a humanoid silhouette on it. I was using Speer .264 diameter 140 grain ‘Hot-Core’ Spitzer Soft-Point / Flat-Base bullet loaded with 31.5 grs. of IMR 3031

 

[toot]

View attachment 3903908
Idk how old this powder is. It looks like early 80s to early 90s not sure

ROGER THAT, it sure look's old!

 

[danm55]

Thats for all ur help and info. These 6.5 arisakas have been the most difficult to load for me lol. The ppu bullets dont wanna seat right. So i had to make them a lil shorter than i wanted. Yesterday the bullets kept getting stuck in the die! Ive literally never had that happen lol. I think its cuz i was trying to fill the case with too much powder. Well not according to the load data. It was only 39 grains. With 36 grains of that old H4831 i got a velocity of 1918 w/120 grain bullet