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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Found this for sale in the area, anyone have any opinions? I am not familiar with black powder rifles at all. So this may as well be Chinese to me. Of course I'm interested in opinions about value, if it can be identified.

And no I'm not talking about the DeWalt drill in the background! :p

All that I know is what is posted below. You now have all the same info I do. The seller's description is above the pics.

Thanks all! :)
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Look and make an offer. If you are looking you know what it is. The sheath for the bayonet is in bad shape. As far as i know its in the original Cond. Best offer owns it. Will take trades. Thank you.
 

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Looks like a movie prop to me - a trapdoor Springfield modified to look like a flintlock musket.
 

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Looks like a movie prop to me - a trapdoor Springfield modified to look like a flintlock musket.
The last time I watched "The Mountain Men", I notices similar rifles in the hands of some of the Indians. I have heard, that a large number of these were further altered to fire 30-06. Therefore, surplus government blank ammo could be used.:rolleyes:
 

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Looks like a movie prop to me - a trapdoor Springfield modified to look like a flintlock musket.

Thats what it looks like to me also, and the bayonet looks like a Zouave bayonet, if real, it would be worth several $$. The rifle, I would put a value of less than $100 if it were just a prop.
 

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Looks too altered to try a restoration. They were most likely going for the Baker Rifle look, with the brass bands. I would leave it alone. It is collectible in it's own right as a movie prop. Also, if altered to fire '06 blanks, would be a hoot to shoot and play around with. What would you trade it for. PM me. M.P.
 

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Weird Gun

Have to concur that it looks like a prop rifle. If stamped any where with " BATJACK" that would be the Dukes production company. Does the blade bayonet affix to the rifle ?? If so has the bayonet or rifle been modified ?? If the blade IS a Zouave and complete with a fine blade, it is worth at least a couple hundred by itself.
 

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Have to concur that it looks like a prop rifle. If stamped any where with " BATJACK" that would be the Dukes production company. Does the blade bayonet affix to the rifle ?? If so has the bayonet or rifle been modified ?? If the blade IS a Zouave and complete with a fine blade, it is worth at least a couple hundred by itself.
If the bayonet isn't a repro.;)
 

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It is a movie prop gun made from a trapdoor rifle. They still fired 45-70 blanks and were used mostly in the pirate movies. If you look at classic movies, you will frequently see them. They were sold out of a movie supply house in the late 1970s. I can't remember the name of the company, but it is well known in collecting circles. Stembridge comes to mind, but I'm not sure. I see these at guns shows with the "extra" parts removed by those trying to pass them off as original rifles. I did buy a couple of TD "carbines" from the company that had the barrels shortned and they had fake blunderbus cones added to them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Update

I contacted the seller of this and have not heard back. Since then, he has changed his ad to read as follows.

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Springfeld 45.70 Model 1873 Trap

SORRY. I listed this wrong. I did some research and it was made around 1873 to 1877. It is a Government issue. The brass piece on the side that has NOTHING to do with the operation. Dont know why its there. Will take trades.


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I suppose I'll try to contact him again. Hopefully he gets back to me this time.

Please note that I do not have, or am not the seller of, this rifle. It is for sale in my area, and I am looking for your opinions on it. I'm sorry for the confusion to those who have PM'd or made offers to me for it.

If the gentleman who is selling this ever gets back to me, I'll let you guys know. Thanks!:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
update

Please note that I do not have, or am not the seller of, this rifle. It is for sale in my area, and I am looking for your opinions on it. I'm sorry for the confusion to those who have PM'd or made offers to me for it.

If the gentleman who is selling this ever gets back to me, I'll let you guys know. Thanks!:)
He finally wrote back saying he has an offer for $600. He won't say much on condition other than "solid and old". He genuinely doesn't seem to know much about it. He can't answer if it will fire.

I'm thinking of leaving it alone at over $600. Opinions?
 

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Make a counter offer of $275 with the offer good for three weeks. For $600 you could find a junker Springfield with salvagable parts.
 

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The only thing that would be good for would be for parts, the lock may be altered beyond use, the barrel may or may not be useable, the stock has been cut. I wouldn't touch it for $200 unless I needed parts and knew they were good.
 

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If you are a TD springfield collector, you may need it for the collection to show how some ended up. It is certainly not worth $600 unless that person has more money than brains. I just bought a very nice original shooter TD off gunbroker for $400. I am not sure about the bayonet, but it may be an original Zouave or Mississippi rifle.
 

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Offer

Looks like the gun may be useless, but you never know. If he can get you some decent pics of the blade and scabbard and IF original and in nice shape it will be worth at least 300.00 on its own. Let us know how the saga ends.
 

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It is exactly the same as seen at the MGM prop sale in late 80s. There were pallets of them. Most marked "MGM" on tang or barrel. Probably has a hole drilled in the barrel to simulate flintlock flash and smoke with blank ctg.. Better left alone as a collectible in it's own right. MAny original bayos were included in sale. I have several rare one including multiple boer mauser sawbacks etc. Both modified and unmodded Trapdoors with bayos were sold by pallet load. Got some nice carbines from it as well. A big lot was offered here in Sac. Ca
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
...and done.

Seller seems firm at $600. No other info or pics offered. I'm not too willing to make the trek (40+ miles) to see it at that price, so I'm done with it. Sorry for the anti-climactic ending :(. Thank you all for the advice and help though! :)
 

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Actually its a good ending. The item is now just movie memorabila and you learned what to watch out for when looking for a rifle to shoot. FWIW many ex MGM TDs have had the flintlock "frizzen" removed from the lockplate and the 2 "extra" holes filled with screws. Usually they are ground flush and staked with a chisel. Been some BS about these being for a rare sight or pressure test device. Was also a more sinister thread about a damaged chamber possibly due to the added "flash" hole.
 
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