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Harrington and Richardson H&R MC-58 Model 65 Modified (USMC .22 Trainer)

183K views 425 replies 86 participants last post by  Cass 
#1 · (Edited)
I had posted some pictures and a request for information on the old boards, looking for any information and data on the H&R MC-58 trainers that were used by the USMC. A lot of people have contacted me with questions and information because of those posts, so I thought I would transfer some of the info over to the new Boards.

I'm specifically looking for information about the serial numbers and markings for the MC-58 rifles.

Most sources indicate that there were less than 3500 of these rifles made for the USMC with serial numbers running from about 6,000 through 9,500. They were an update of the MOD 65 H&R Reising procured for the USMC during WWII. The most noticeable difference was the relocation of the safety from the right side of the receiver to the front of the trigger guard to better simulate the operation to the M1 and M14 rifles.

I'd like to hear from any of you that have MC-58's.

Thanks,
Cass


There were two different types of receiver markings on the H&R MC-58 receivers. Both types are different from the earlier WWII era H&R Model 65 Reising trainers.

The two types are:

USMC PROPERTY, MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

and:

U.S. MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

The earlier WWII trainers were marked:

MOD. 65 - H.& R. REISING 22 CAL.
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.

The USMC marked MC-58 rifles I have recorded seem to run in the earlier serial number range and the US in the later numbers.

I have US and USMC marked Remington 40X's from about the same time period, so they had apparently begun to require different marking around that time.

The first picture is of the USMC PROPERTY type marking.



The second picture is the US MODEL MC-58 type marking.



For comparison the third picture shows the WWII era Model 65 Reising markings.

 
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#61 · (Edited)
Hello to everyone I'm New to the Group!
Among other weapons, I have a Model 65-H&R Reising S#58xx No US Government Property Makings or USMC Markings Visible anywhere? Just curious am I missing them or where should they be stamped at? What a wonderful shooter it is. I shot this and won Many of our Local Club shooting matches back in the 80's and early 90's, and my nephews used it after me with the same results. Also have a Mossberg 144LSB .22, and a Vickers Empire .22. But theres nothing like the General.


Also notice Earlier in this thread there were some picture links posted, after I joined they went away? Why can't I veiw them now?
 
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#62 ·
All pix. were lost on this sight during the server change over.. Its too bad as well there were many great photos of mc-58's.. Basicly the mc-58 is a modified M-65. The real differance is the move of the safety to the triggerguard like an m1/m14.. As the m50 reising was no longer in use. The marine corp modified these rifle to replicate the m1/m14 rifle...The mc58 had a slightly larger stock and is shaped just like an m1...Other than that there is no real differance. Other than price of course.. M65's can be had any where 100-650 where mc58's seem to start at 1k and go up from there...
 
#63 ·
a commercial note.. there apears to be a few differant models called the' leather neck' I have a m165. it's basicly a m65 with a different front sight and stock. the rear sight styed the same. The m150 above is also called the 'leather neck' shares the receiver only.. I think this is where they used up the last batch of receivers..
 
#64 ·
IIRC, there are two H&R Leatherneck models. The Model 150 uses a barrel-mounted rear sight, while the Model 151 uses the Redfield receiver-mounted sight like the Model 65. I always thought the 165s were the ones made from leftover parts and the 150/151 were the new version with the nicer parts (though thinner barrel)
 
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#68 ·
I have 8964

Left for me by my dad. Actually was a bag of parts when I found it and put it together without any instructions or drawings (luckily it's not very complicated). Works great and is dead accurate. Took my son out for his first shooting with it yesterday. Got curious about it and found your forum. If you would like any info about it, let me know.

Regards,

Sirk
 
#69 ·
Left for me by my dad. Actually was a bag of parts when I found it and put it together without any instructions or drawings (luckily it's not very complicated). Works great and is dead accurate. Took my son out for his first shooting with it yesterday. Got curious about it and found your forum. If you would like any info about it, let me know.

Regards,

Sirk
Sirk:

Yes, I'd like to hear more about it. What markings does it have on the reeiver?

There were two different types of receiver markings on the H&R MC-58 receivers. Both types are different from the earlier WWII era H&R Model 65 Reising trainers.

The two types are:

USMC PROPERTY, MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

and:

U.S. MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

The earlier WWII trainers were marked:

MOD. 65 - H.& R. REISING 22 CAL.
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.

Thanks,
Cass
 
#72 · (Edited)
Just a heads up on some information on the H&R 65 over on rimfirecentral.com. It's in the Military Trainer section.
There is a post with information about a "letter numbering dating system" by H&R. It states that H&R started stamping the barrel with the letter "A" in 1940 and continued therafter. So my H&R 65 serial # 1964 should be 1943 production date.
Any comments.

4-16-10 Update. Now the discussion says that the "letter" stamping was added to the serial number. And the author has no idea on the meaning of the "D" stamped on the barrel. Still a a unknown factor.
 
#73 ·
Cass and others interested in the MC-58:

Another MC-58 has surfaced. It was sold in the April 28, 2010 Cowan's Auction. The sale price was $1610. Serial number was 8349. Here is a link to the completed auction with a pic. I suspect that this was one of the MC-58s that were sold a few years ago by the CMP.

BTW, has anyone ever turned up an original manual for the MC-58, the TM-ORD-2000? I am still lookng for one.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

http://www.cowanauctions.com/past_sales_view_item.asp?ItemId=81209
 
#80 ·
MC-58 Manual Examples

BTW, has anyone ever turned up an original manual for the MC-58, the TM-ORD-2000? I am still lookng for one.

Regards,
Charlie Flick

http://www.cowanauctions.com/past_sales_view_item.asp?ItemId=81209
Charlie,

TM-ORD-2000 covers operation, maintenance, and inspection of the MC-58. While I don't have one available to sell, I have one in my personal collection, and it is pictured below for reference.


David Albert Collection

Another MC-58 manual that exists is a Marine Corps Stock List, (SL-4-01423A), which shows and lists all parts for the rifle, along with their procurement stock numbers, for use in repair of the rifle. The example from my collection is pictured below.


David Albert Collection

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
 
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#77 ·
I was pointed to this thread over in RimfireCentral, and I thought I would post some pics of my Mod65, as many of the original photos here seem to be lost.
I picked this one up this past weekend. It is serial # 47xx, and there is a "D" stamped on the barrel at the joint with the receiver. There are no military marks on the stock.





 
#78 ·
boyt44:

Nice rifle. By the serial number that was definitely one of the WWII USMC rifles. It looks like the original finish that has browned some like many of them do. The parkerizing was a fairly thin finish that browned very easily. If you look under the stock the color is probably more like it would have looked overall. These rifles had no military marking on the stock or metal.

Most of the original pictures in the post were lost when they upgraded the servers here. I have all the pictures on my hard drive but for some reason i can reload them with the posts. I need to start a new thread and get them back as examples.

Cass
 
#79 ·
I am trying to locate an original Redfield rear sigtht for my Model 65. When I purchased it a couple of years ago. I learned that a previous owner had installed a Mossberg sight where the Redfield sight goes. The Mossberg sight works just fine, but I would rather have an original Redfield sight. Anyone have any sources for an original sight?
 
#81 ·
I was finally able to restore some of the reference pictures back to the early posts. They had been deleted a year or two ago when the servers at gunboards were upgraded. I was never able to re-upload the pictures on the early posts, so I deleted them and used photobucket instead. I'll add the remaining lost pictures soon.

Thanks,
Cass
 
#84 ·
Here are some pictures from a recent auction for one of the sealed CMP auction rifles. This one had never been opened.

A little boring looking at pictures of a box, ha, but pretty amazing to see one unopened since it was shipped in 1959.

Cass
Hi Cass:

Thanks for posting these pics and keeping this thread alive. (BTW, I happen to like box pics!) The box shown is exactly like the one that my CMP MC-58 came in. The package even contained a barrel wick. One of these days if I can find the time I will take pics of the entire contents of the package with the rifle and all the doodads that came with it and post them here.

The only thing missing from the package was that darned TM-ORD-2000. Someday I hope to find one of those manuals.

Regards,
Charlie Flick
 
#86 ·
You provided some amazing resources, its what inspired me to get my on Model 65 and to get my brother-in-law a 150.

A bit off-topic though, what do you know about the Reising .22 pistols of the late 1920s? The research out there is spotty at best and I would love to find about more about these nifty little pistols.
 
#87 ·
You provided some amazing resources, its what inspired me to get my on Model 65 and to get my brother-in-law a 150.

A bit off-topic though, what do you know about the Reising .22 pistols of the late 1920s? The research out there is spotty at best and I would love to find about more about these nifty little pistols.
Fushigi Ojisan,

Reising .22 Pistols are the next project I have slated for the Reising reference section. Among the items I acquired from the Jeff Reising estate are several original pamphlets, catalogs, order forms, and other paper items associated with Eugene Reising's namesake company from the 1920's. As best as I can tell, the Reising Arms Company operated from about 1921 to 1929, with the Reising .22 Pistol as their primary product. Early on, the company was based on Broadway in New York City, very close to several other firearm companies, including Auto-Ordnance, and then the company moved to Hartford, CT. The pistols had some variations, including an engraved, deluxe presentation version. I’ve seen 4 different color grips that were available on the pistol, including an ivory color, 2 shades of brown, and black. Eugene Reising worked with John Browning on the M1911 Pistol, and the Reising .22 bears a resemblance to it, with the addition of a unique break-open action. The motto for the company was "It's a Bear," and this motto and theme was molded into the Reising .22 Pistol grips. The Reising competed against the Colt Woodsman.
More to come on the Reising .22 Pistol...




David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
 
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#88 ·
David, I look forward to seeing more about the Reising pistols. That is another area where there is a big void in information. Hopefully with Jeff's paperwork you can fill in some of the gaps. The info on the mod 65's and MC-58's has come much the same way, just piecing together information mostly from observation and from a few ads and dates, etc.

Cass
 
#89 ·
David has already blown bit of conventional wisdom out of the water--that the New York pistols were the later ones (because their SNs have an extra digit or two). They are just such a nifty design and very light--its a shame they are prone to cracking when shot with hotter ammo.

I have a New York model with brown-red grips and surprisingly clean for its age. Can't wait to take it to the range.
 
#90 ·
David has already blown bit of conventional wisdom out of the water--that the New York pistols were the later ones (because their SNs have an extra digit or two). They are just such a nifty design and very light--its a shame they are prone to cracking when shot with hotter ammo.

I have a New York model with brown-red grips and surprisingly clean for its age. Can't wait to take it to the range.
Fushigi Ojisan,

I may need to revise my earlier remarks about the sequence of Reising Arms Company locations. Looks like Hartford is probably the earlier location. I'm digging through the documents right now, and am seeing the Hartford address, two different New York addresses, and a reference to "Works" in Chicopee Falls, MA. I know the pistols were marked with a New York, or a Hartford address. Let me make more sense out of the documents, and I'll post what I find. I made an assumption about New York being first, based on something I remembered, and that recollection may have been in error.

David Albert
dalbert@sturmgewehr.com
 
#92 · (Edited)
Bump.

If anyone sees any additional MC-58 rifles, I am still collecting the data and would still like to record the serial number and type of markings:

USMC PROPERTY, MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

or,

U.S. MODEL MC-58
H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.


Thanks,
Cass




 
#93 ·
Hi All,

This thread seems like the place to be on the internet for WWII era Model 65 Reising questions to get answered. All the information in this thread has been a great help, but none of the listed models appear to match what I have. Hopefully you guys can let me know what exactly I've got here.

Going to link to a few pictures that I've re-sized with the important parts highlighted, then the rest of the pictures I'll just include direct links if you want to look at them. (Link to all pictures: http://eggplantdev.com/pictures/ )


Picture 1:

Picture 13:

Picture 14:

Picture 9:

Picture 12:

Picture 8:


(sorry for the crap pictures, photography is not my strong suite)
So first things first, the barrel reads the normal 'MOD 65 - H&R Reising 22 CAL' with the Worcester Mass USA stamp. But you'll notice in picture 1, there appears to be the letter 'B' stamped on the top. The rest of the thread I don't think made mention of a letter being stamped there, but I don't know if it means anything (note: B 187 appears on the butt-plate). You'll also notice on the first picture, you see the four holes for the scope mount (scope shown in picture 12).

Now I know there has been made mention of the USMC contest rifles, but from what I can tell, the muzzle looks different from the pictures posted in this thread and my gun has the "M1" sight on the end of the barrel - which the other USMC contest rifles do not have.

The serial number is printed #1002.


I'm curious if anybody knows what this would be? Let me know if I'm missing any information that would help identify the gun.

Thanks!
 
#94 ·
Hello Scott:

It appears to be a standard H&R Mod 65 that has had a scope added. From the serial number it would have been made for the USMC during WWII. The letter on top of the barrel appears on all of the Mod 65's (it was not used on the later MC-58's). The most common letter is D. I have seen a few marked B and one that was marked A. I've seen nothing definite on the purpose, but those locations are typical of proof marks from the barreling step of manufacture. The differences could be different inspectors or differences in how the barrels gauged.

The scope is a commercial version of the Weaver 330. Do you have the scope mounts that fit the holes?

The markings on the butt plate and butt stock were assembly numbers. Since the butt plates vary in size, my theory is that the butt plates were oversized when assembled to the stocks, then ground down to fit, then removed to be finished. The numbers allowed them to be reassembled to the correct stock.

Hope this helps.

Cass
 
#95 · (Edited)
Cass,
Was at a get together this weekend and meet a gent with Mod 65 Serial #7818. If you need any more info let me know as I can contact him. Also, his rifle is missing the complete bolt retainer assembly (bar, slide, screws etc) do you know where he can find these parts as he want to get back into good order.

Thanks
Dale
 
#97 · (Edited)
Cass;

Late last summer I picked up H&R Mod 65 with the following markings.

MOD. 65 - H.& R. REISING 22 CAL.
HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.

The serial number is 9900 and the rifle is grey/green park. The unit appers to be complete with all the sites and sling hardware, came with one original mag. I will try to post pictures later this week. The rifle is very accurate at the range, like most of my guns it shoots better than me. Also pick up the 151 Leatherneck which is also a nice shooting unit.




Capt.RJM
 
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