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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Our Esteemed Moderator scrutinized this and had found this to be a valuable contribution and not a dirty-talking sporterization topic ;-), so I feel free transfer it here:

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Carlson
Posted - 07/19/2007 : 10:16:26 PM
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Made this scope base to fit on one of my M94s so that I would be able to fit a scope to the rifle without altering the original rifle. Scope is a 2X Leupold.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/2007719221535_M94 2.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/200771922165_Scope 2.jpg
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Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 01:37:34 AM
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Can you show a few more photos? Like without the scope from the top or from an angle to the top? How is it anchored down besides the ladder pin? Give us some design and construction background. I'm always interested in how different designers solve similar problems.

It looks like an excellent job on a very pretty carbine. Glad to see you preserved the integrity of the carbine.

Dutchman



Carlson
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 2:58:57 PM
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Here are some more details and photos:

M94 Rear Sight Ladder: Numrich's (e-gunparts.com), item number 7060, cost $8.20 (excluding shipping) Be careful looking for this item. Some of their pages have this part listed as out of stock. Try:

http://www.e-gunparts.com/products.asp?chrMasterModel=1780z94 SWEDISH

Weaver Style Scope Base: Thompson/Center, cost $13.00 (local gun shop), I picked this base as it was aluminum (easy to work by hand)and it had extra material on the bottom
Assembly: Hand tools (mostly files) and Brownell's Acraglas Epoxy

Used 2x Leupold scope: $80.00

Total cost with scope: approximately $106.00

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/2007720142248_top.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/2007720142349_side.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/2007720142415_bottom.jpg
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I removed material from the bottom front and bottom back of scope base in order to clear the handguard. The base is fit flush with the top of the sight ladder. I needed to file a groove across the bottom of the scope sight base as well as lower the rear portion of the sight ladder a little in order to get the flush fit. The two metal pieces are held together with epoxy. Epoxy was filled flush with the rear sight ladder on the inside and along the edges on the outside. I need to block a spot on the inside to allow clearence of the rear sight slide catch and drilled out a portion of dried epxoy to allow clearence of the rear sight button/screw. Alignment of the two pieces was done by eye.

Comparing the view through the bore and through the scope there isn't too much difference. At 100 yards the scope is about 8 inches lower than the bore and 3-4 inches off to the left. Hopefully I will be able to adjust for both these differences through the scope. There is room to shim the front if the gun is sighted too high.

Currently, it is only anchored down by the ladder pin. I don't think there will be any issues with horizontal movement. I may install a vertical set screw just behind the rear sight hinge. I figure that this may help control any upward movement. The set screw would be tapped into the scope base and would contact the metal of the rear sight base.

I will try to take the gun to the range on Sunday to see how it all works.



Dutchman
Posted - 07/20/2007 : 6:48:32 PM
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I think you'd win the prize for the least expensive and simplest LER scope mount we've yet seen. It sounds most excellent for a job done without any machine tools. Keep this message thread bookmarked so you can add the range results to it without having to search high and low.

One note - if it fails to target successfully don't give up. A first try often leads to a 2nd better attempt, and 3rd and 4th. I found this to be true with the mount I made on a milling machine for the m/96. Don't give up.

You could attach the mount to the replacement ladder by using flat head countersunk screws from the bottom of the ladder. Small screws, like #4 or #6 in a row, maybe 4 on each side of the ladder would accomplish the same end. This whole design represents the beauty of using replacement parts to modify instead of ruining an original part.

Excellent summary of the process, too. Not only do I like the way you think, I like the way you forge on with nothing but your two hands and some files to create what your brain designed. You didn't give up. I hope this encourages others to duplicate your effort and enjoy the fruit of that effort. You'd be dangerous with a small lathe and milling machine. http://www.taigtools.com/index.html The basic mill and lathe won't break the bank and they get excellent reviews. If you ever want to talk about this let me know.

Welcome to the forum.
Dutchman



Kivaari
Posted - 07/21/2007 : 7:28:47 PM
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It also "appears" that the likely line of sight is not egregiously over the bore line (assuming some low rings)...one thing that irritates me about some scout mounts.



Carlson
Posted - 07/22/2007 : 9:12:47 PM
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Went to the range late this afternoon. After getting the scope aligned properly I shot the following two targets. Bottom target was shot without any vertical control on the scope base. Top target was shot with a folded piece of paper towel propped between the scope base and handguard. Maximum dispersion for the bottom target was about 2.25 inches. Dispersion on top target was about 1.25 inches. Looks like I need to start work on controlling vertical scope movement.

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/200772221929_targets.jpg
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/200772221958_paper shim.jpg
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Dutchman, thanks for your kind words of encouragement. Much appreciated.



Big commander
Posted - 07/22/2007 : 9:51:20 PM
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I hope that one day it will be named "The Carlson Mount". Very well done!



Carlson
Posted - 08/08/2007 : 9:14:31 PM
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Have been trying to figure out a way to better secure the scope mount. Current trial is with a 3mm screw through the top of the base into the rear sight spring catch (another spare from e-gunparts). Wasn't able to drill and tap the base (any advice) so I filed a center groove through the catch and epoxied in a 3 mm nut. Not too sure how well this will work - may not hold up enough to recoil and miscellaneous bumps. Here are some photos:

Modified sight spring and original. I used plent of epxoy to secure the 3 mm nut.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/20078821139_Rear Sight Spring 1.jpg
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Side view of original spring and new spring. I guess 103 years will take some strength out of a flat spring.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/20078821319_Rear Sight Spring 2.jpg
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Spring with screw installed
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/2007882148_Rear Sight Spring 3.jpg
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Scope base on my M 94 - note screw head under scope adjustment cover
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/carlson/20078821545_Scope.jpg
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If this set-up doesn't work I will try to drill and tap a screw just behind where the rear sight is attached to the rear sight band. The tip of the screw should contact the top of the rear sight band and help control any vertical movement.

Schedule will not let me test my latest modifications for the next 10-14 days Will keep you all posted when I have an update.
 

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I'm glad Alexander brought this topic over and saw the reason why. I'm impressed with this mount every time I see it because the designer thought beforehand how to preserve the integrity of the carbine without hurting it. And he did a great job and its a fairly easy build. So simple and absolutely functional and solid.


Dutchman
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your appreciation of my understanding ;-), Dutchman. It is indeed a remarkable construction that makes the gun more useful for hunting or sportive shooting wit ageing eyes, yet does not compromise the integrity of the piece.

Alexander
 

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Final Update

Fianlly got around to finishing this project. Using epxoy to glue the 3 mm nuts to the sight base didn't provide a strong enough bond. I tried soldering the steel onto the sight base and that didn't work either. Finally I had the small piece of steel silver brazed to the base. This has worked very well. In order to be able to thread the steel all the way through I had to grind a small hole in the center of the sight base so that when I drilled the piece of steel my drill bit was able to go all the way through. The sight base pin and the threaded steel piece now make for a very stable platform. Following are a few pictures. I also had the opportunity to load some Hornady 160 grain round nose bullets for my carbine. So far the best luck I have had is using 43.5 grains of Norma MRP with a COL of 3.030". Best group is just under 1 inch extreme spread. Will try tweaking the powder charge and start to play with the bullet seating depth.
 

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Glad to see you back, Carlson,

That's a dang good group for a carbine. Nice looking carbine, too.

Dutchman
 

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That is an excellent grouping!
 
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