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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
This rifle was featured in two thread which I now combine into one.

At first the description by Mag (who has full bragging rights), then pictures taken by Pip.

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Original thread title: "Scope on a M-38 short rifle"

mag
Posted - 02/27/2004 : 11:00:33 PM
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After finding that I had enough spare Carcano parts to build a rifle [ all the parts were left over from parts gun that had been bubba'd in one way or another ], I am putting together a 7.35mm short rifle for next deer season. I thought it would be interesting to show up with a Carcano. I am also going to see just how well one will shoot. I am aiming for sub 1 inch 5-shot groups at 100 yards. I made a scope mount to put the scope in the correct place, low and right over the bore centerline. Converted it to bottom loading, redesigned the trigger and sear for a crisp 6oz break, redesigned the firing pin to speed up lock time and cut down on impact vibration. Glass bedding, barrel floating. It should be ready for testing soon. It has all original Carcano parts, just worked on. mag



Carcano
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 05:15:39 AM
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Very nice !
There are a number of old 6,5mm sporters around (mostly Austrian from the 1920s and 1930), with beautiful slender stocks, double set triggers, somtimes Stutzen type stocks etc. And I own a newly built 6,5mm sporter with a new .264" barrel (almost finished, but without open sights), a project gun that somebody abandoned).

But it's the first time that I hear of a newly-to-be made 7,35mm sporter. Is there a typo in your post ? The scope position would be high and left over the magazine, normally, unless one uses a scout-type mount. The firing pin can possibly be improved by replacing the cocking piece with a smaller part, but I wonder whether it's worth the effort.



mag
Posted - 02/28/2004 : 2:27:06 PM
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There is no typo. The scope is centerline right over the bolt and only 1/2 inch above the receiver. Just high enough to eject an empty. That is also why I have to convert it to bottom loading. That is what makes this one interesting. I had to mill a half moon cutout in the safety to clear the scope, but the safety still works. The gun is only together enough to be test fired right now, when I get it finished I will post a photo. mag



mag
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 4:10:44 PM
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I only fired one 5-shot group today as it was very windy and trying for the best accuracy would have been a waste of time and ammo. the wind was 30 mph with gusts up to 50 mph. I got a 1.43 group at 100 yards. I will finish up the rifle and do some real testing. But the group does tell me the gun will make a hunter. mag



Arditi
Posted - 02/29/2004 : 6:07:19 PM
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I'd like to see that bad-boy when you are done with it. It would make an interesting article on the specifics of putting it together as well. Keep us posted, Arditi www.arditi43.com



mag
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 11:52:50 PM
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I have finished the rifle and done some test shooting. I am pleased! A friend will post some photos of it shortly.

I tested several loads, including a high velocity one to be used on deer. The best 5-shot 100 yard group was with a medium [ 2200 fps ] load at 0.67. The deer load [ 2500 fps ] did 1.33, plenty good enough for deer hunting. None of the loads tried did more than 1.9. There were 4 other shooters out there shooting their modern super magmun, big scoped rifles. All were doing worse than the carcano. I even had a couple come over to look at it, they really felt bad when I told them I had $12.00 in the whole set up [ the $12.00 Chinese scope ].

Most loads where right at 1.3, and I feel that is the limit of the scope. The scope is only 4x and the crosshairs cover about 1.25 inch of the target at 100 yards. The bottom loading works great, you just insert a full clip from the bottom and click the magazine bottom closed. The bedding also seemed to work well as all groups were round and it did not wander hot or cold. A big surprize was 2 groups fired with reloads using original military bullets, both right at 1.9. I had never thought much of that bullet before. The gun weight is 7 1/2 pounds ready to hunt. The feel and balance is nice. Now I just have to wait for next deer season. mag



Bill Davis
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 01:40:06 AM
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I'm kind of dense here; how do you load it from the bottom? Do you have to unscrew the trigger guard/mag assembly? It wouldn't really be too much trouble to do it that way...what kind of load/bullet are you using? Thanks for any information, I have intended to make a sporter out of a beater parts gun I have (6.5MM) that has a broken stock.



Arditi
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 11:43:45 AM
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I'm pretty excited. I get to shoot this new rifle in our group match tommorrow. My skills are not as tight as mag's, but I'll see what I can do with it. Wish me luck...I'll try for a pic or two. Arditi www.arditi43.com



mag
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 1:19:53 PM
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Originally posted by Bill Davis
I'm kind of dense here; how do you load it from the bottom? Do you have to unscrew the trigger guard/mag assembly? It wouldn't really be too much trouble to do it that way...what kind of load/bullet are you using? Thanks for any information, I have intended to make a sporter out of a beater parts gun I have (6.5MM) that has a broken stock.
It has the bottom mag plate set up on a hinge with a locking set up. Just push button, let plate drop, put in full clip, push plate up till it latches. If you had to unscrew and drop the whole magazine, that would mean in effect taking the action loose from the stock. That would make the gun shot to a different point of aim everytime you put it back together, not what you would want on a hunting gun. I am using a 7.35mm gun. I have yet to get a 6.5mm to shoot consistently enough where I would want to hunt with one. mag



mag
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 9:13:45 PM
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Photos of rifle have been posted by PIP. Hopefully that will make some of this clear. mag



mag
Posted - 03/07/2004 : 3:22:25 PM
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I shot 2 more groups today with the hunting velocity load. A 1.33 and 1.35. As stated earlier, that seems to be the limit of the scope. No more testing to be done, just have to wait untill next deer season. I will tell you how it does. mag

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Original title: "mags carcano sporter"

pip
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 8:22:05 PM
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7.35

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/pip/200436201947_fullside.JPG
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/pip/200436202041_action.JPG
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http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/pip/20043620212_scope.JPG
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mag
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 12:02:51 AM
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WELL ???? No comments. Does anybody like it? mag



shjoe
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 05:53:47 AM
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outstanding work. very slick deer rifle. the "load from the bottom" is definately trick.



Aethelbert
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 08:26:43 AM
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As shjoe says, very nice work, indeed! Your rifle shows some well-done inletting/relief work (not sure of the correct term) on the right side of the stock. The mods to the bolt and safety likewise show careful workmanship. I would never call this rifle 'Bubba-ized' -- much too well thought throught and completed.

One question, though. How did you pull off the apparent bottom load? Or is that just an impression given be the photo?



Atlpete
Posted - 03/10/2004 : 08:53:08 AM
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Wow, nice project, Bubba should be so talented indeed. I'm also intrigued with the particulars of the bottom load mod, very ingenious, now all you need is to find one of those double trigger groups. I'm looking forward to a range report



mag
Posted - 03/11/2004 : 12:58:58 AM
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The range report is in the "scoped M-38 " post. To recap it is shooting right at 1.35 5-shot groups at 100 yards. The 4x scope's thick crosshairs cover about 1.35 of the target's bullseye so it will not shoot any better. All the groups with several loads all went: 1.33 1.35 1.37 1.38 1.32 1.41 . I have settled on a 128 sp at 2500 fps for my hunting load.

The bottom loading feature is the neatest part of the work done. The inter mag well was milled out to let the front floor plate swing freely [ it pivots on the front screw ] and it bottoms out flush with the housing and has a push pin lock. Just push the release lever, the floor plate with the srpinged lever drops down, then just insert a full clip up and it locks into place when you latch the floor plate closed. Feeds ammo the normal way and the empty clip drops out the bottom like normal. If I can find a 5 ROUND Remington model 788 mag in 308 or 7mm/08 [ I need help here ] I will get another magazine housing and convert it to take the detactable magazine. The factory 3 rounders are too short to clear. mag



Franchi
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 2:48:26 PM
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Looks good, I have seen the triggerguard and floorplate from the Italian/Japanese Type I used on Carcano sporters, makes a nice "Mauser Style" addition.
David Franchi



tbaus
Posted - 03/20/2004 : 10:26:45 AM
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Mag, I understand you push a button and the bottom of the mag swings down on the front screw. What did you use for the button/catch? I would like more detail on this. I too have some parts guns I could build one from. Can you supply details and or pictures of this, and details of your scope mount. Thanks in advance. Good shootin'...



mag
Posted - 03/20/2004 : 3:18:49 PM
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I made the button and catch from parts I milled from a piece of metal. I do not have a way to do photos, That is why I had a friend take and post those shown. I also made the scope mount from some old parts, with a lot of modifictions. mag
 

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Discussion Starter #2
7.35mm M-38 SR gets deer

mag
Posted - 11/11/2004 : 02:29:16 AM
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Some of you may remember the photo's of the M-38 short rifle sporter that I built from left over parts and converted to bottom loading with a centerline 4x scope I posted here a while back.
I took it in it's first deer hunt today and got a 6 point buck. I was using the new Hornady .300 dia 7.35 bullet loaded to 2450 fps. It hit him from head on in the chest from about 80 yards, I had walked up on him. He ran a 70 yard circle and dropped dead. Just a little enterance hole to show for the hit. I do like the rifle for stalking as it is so light and compact. mag



mag
Posted - 11/13/2004 : 01:34:30 AM
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Sorry no photos. It was at late dusk and by the time I had drug him back to clean him was pitch black. The old posted photo's of the rifle are about 8 monthes back on this board, maybe someone who knows more about using this board could pull them up and repost them ??

Done above! :) Carcano

At first I just built the rifle because I was bored for a project and wanted to get some use out of the parts pile. BUT now that I have carried and used the rifle in the field I really like it. My load with the 128 bullet is no powerhouse, but it got the job done. It also has a 6 group average [ 5 shot at 100 yards ] of 1.79 [ with none over 2 inches] , so it is accurate enough for hunting. mag
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Somebody had posted a rather... ahem... silly desire about wishing to "modify the magazine" of a 6,5mm Carcano so that he could insert a full 6-round charger clip and *still* close the bolt on an empty chamber. Some people... sigh. Maybe he should get a belt feed.

Mag gave him a substantial answer:

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mag
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 5:18:56 PM
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The only reason I made it a bottom feed was to clear a low centerline scope. There were two other ways that I found that would work and would suit what you want better. First: Find a Type-I magazine housing, that will put a mauser type box on a Carcano. Second: A Remington 788 removable box magazine could be made to lock in a trimmed Carcano housing. I found a .308 mag was perfect for the 7.35mm, for 6.5mm you may need a 6mm mag.
Also since it is for hunting, you could just preload your rifle with a normal Carcano clip with only 5 rounds in it and close the bolt over the empty chamber. You should not need more than 5 rounds, and if you do a reload with a 6 rounder is still quick. mag
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Carcano vs Boar

mag
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 7:43:34 PM
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I got to use my " 7.8 x 56 mm " Light weight Carcano hunting today. I ended up using .321 dia 170 bullets in a cutdown 30/06 case with the rim rebated to .448 . That was the only bullet size that could be shot in my carbines barrel with out overpressure, I had to rebate the rims for the cases to feed and fit the boltface. My hunting load is the 170 gr flatnose at 2350 fps. Here is a photo of the 200 lb wild boar shot at about 70 yards and the rifle. The bullet went through both shoulders, got the heart, and was found in pieces under the far side skin. mag

http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/mag/200642194252_78 pig.JPG
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airdale
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 9:12:26 PM
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Nice Boar! That is some recoil pad on your rifle, is that because of recoil or to lengthen the stock? I don't think my 8MM Carcano's kick too bad but I only use light loads in them.



mag
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 12:20:13 AM
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It does both. The stock was shortened and the rubber weighes less than the wood it replaces. The rifle has been really lightened, it is just over 5 lbs. Many parts are handmade from aluminum. A 170 gn bullet at 2350 fps [ out of a 16.5 inch barrel ] in a 5 lbs rifle really kicks. With the pad it is not bad at all. mag



DMala
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 10:33:36 AM
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Great shot!



mag
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 10:44:06 PM
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Originally posted by DMala
Great shot!
Thank you. mag



Lars
Posted - 04/05/2006 : 10:08:15 PM
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The bullet went through both shoulders, got the heart, and was found in pieces under the far side skin.
What was found in pieces, the heart or the bullet?

You bagged a nice one there.



mag
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 12:01:05 AM
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The bullet.



dragonfly
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 07:02:00 AM
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Nice one, Mag. We don't have wild boar where I live, but I've always been interested in the hunting of them. How do you hunt them in Texas (I'm assuming you took it there)?



jwh2
Posted - 04/06/2006 : 8:04:09 PM
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Okay,I'll bite. What is a 7.8x56 caliber?



mag
Posted - 04/07/2006 : 12:27:04 AM
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Here in Texas they are all over the place. I have photos of some that look to be about 800 lbs + . They are always tearing up the deer feeders and crops . I got the one in the photo while turkey hunting, there was my 200 pounder and a 500+ pounder rooting in a wheat field. I saw them at about 500 yards and stalked in to get the little one for the meat, passed one the big one as they are tough and trying to move a dead 500 lb boar is very hard ! You will see them at dawn and dusk, as they are out all night.

7.8x56 mm is what the round is for my "8mm" Carcano, like most it has a .308 by .321 dia bore and a short chamber. When I am done shortening the case, rebating the rim and seating a .321 dia bullet, the round is 7.8x56mm . That is the only way I can shoot it without high pressure, case sticking and having it feed and eject correctly. mag



jwh2
Posted - 04/09/2006 : 9:18:31 PM
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Ah.. a wild cat round. I had just never seen that one mentioned before. Basically .30/30 or .30 Remington performance?

Joe
 

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I'm new to this site and missed the original pix of Mag's homebrew revamp of his Carcano, and I can't download what's on this site. What he's done is something I've been "thinking" about for many years. It sounds like he's done a great job. Could Mag or someone else kindly repost the pix he had originally posted and any additional ones he may have on his gun; I'd sure appreciate it.

Thanks and have a great day.

Bill
 

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Yep ! had the same problem ,I build from parts I acumulate not from whole rifles,I am not a butcher or a bubba and love the concept of bottom feed with a top centered scope and would love to see this mans work.
 
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