[BRussell]

What artards. I mean shouldn't stupidity be against the law also? Having a 15-yo supervising the kid?

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Gun club, police chief indicted in boy's Uzi death
Yahoo ^ | 12/4/2008 | Staff

Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2008 3:09:36 PM by Red in Blue PA

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. – Three men, including a small-town police chief, were indicted Thursday on involuntary manslaughter counts in the gun-fair death of an 8-year-old who accidentally shot himself in the head with an Uzi that a prosecutor said he never should have been allowed to handle.

The club where the fair was held also was charged. The fair had promised shooters would have certified instructors in an advertisement, but District Attorney William Bennett said the child, Christopher Bizilj, was supervised by an uncertified 15-year-old boy.

Christopher, of Ashford, Conn., lost control of the 9mm micro submachine gun as it recoiled while he was firing at a pumpkin Oct. 26 at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club in western Massachusetts.

 

[Rmac58]

Good Lord.
More ammo for the anti's.

 

[GhostCat]

Knee-Jerk reaction to a Tragic Accident.......I can relate to this story actually.....I took my daughter to the Shooting range when she was 9 yrs old......A guy was there ("MachineGun Tony") with a large selection of Full Autos....Tony is a class-2 Manufacturer.
He was Charging $10 a 30rnd mag to fire his guns.
I paid to let my Daughter shoot the Full auto UZI 9mm......We gave her a Crash course prior to letting her shoot.....we kept telling her, Pull trigger and Release immediatley.....that way it would be something like a 3-rnd burst.....on her first trigger pull, she spit out about 10 rnds and the muzzle was climbing before she let go......after that, she realized to Pull the trigger and release which she did for the remaining of the MAG......so I can see how this happened.....but no one needs to get sued here....just a tragic Accident.

 

[BRussell]

Knee-Jerk reaction to a Tragic Accident.......I can relate to this story actually.....I took my daughter to the Shooting range when she was 9 yrs old......A guy was there ("MachineGun Tony") with a large selection of Full Autos....Tony is a class-2 Manufacturer.
He was Charging $10 a 30rnd mag to fire his guns.
I paid to let my Daughter shoot the Full auto UZI 9mm......We gave her a Crash course prior to letting her shoot.....we kept telling her, Pull trigger and Release immediatley.....that way it would be something like a 3-rnd burst.....on her first trigger pull, she spit out about 10 rnds and the muzzle was climbing before she let go......after that, she realized to Pull the trigger and release which she did for the remaining of the MAG......so I can see how this happened.....but no one needs to get sued here....just a tragic Accident.

So was "Tony" a fifteen-year old man? Don't you get how stupid these people where.

It's not the same thing as Machinegun Tony standing right next to your daughter.

 

[GhostCat]

So was "Tony" a fifteen-year old man? Don't you get how stupid these people where.

Yeah, I get that.....and I agree that would be a problem.....I suppose that will have to be proven in court.....there are always two-sides to a story and I suspect there were more experienced people supervising.....or at least I hope.

 

[cpw]

If they advertised "certified" instructors for the shooters and the 15 year old was not a "certified" instructor - I would be inclined to think that the club might have exposure.

 

[EricOKC]

Knee-Jerk reaction to a Tragic Accident.......I can relate to this story actually.....I took my daughter to the Shooting range when she was 9 yrs old......A guy was there ("MachineGun Tony") with a large selection of Full Autos....Tony is a class-2 Manufacturer.
He was Charging $10 a 30rnd mag to fire his guns.
I paid to let my Daughter shoot the Full auto UZI 9mm......We gave her a Crash course prior to letting her shoot.....we kept telling her, Pull trigger and Release immediatley.....that way it would be something like a 3-rnd burst.....on her first trigger pull, she spit out about 10 rnds and the muzzle was climbing before she let go......after that, she realized to Pull the trigger and release which she did for the remaining of the MAG......so I can see how this happened.....but no one needs to get sued here....just a tragic Accident.

Nothing like a "crash course" for a nine year old child prior to shooting a fully automatic rifle.

Your stupidity does not condone this other person's stupidity.

The fact that the rifle she was shooting could be uncontrollable should have been your first clue, Sherlock.

When I teach a person to shoot a semi-auto pistol or rifle, I place one round in the magazine at a time until that person is used to the recoil or feel...even on a .22.

I then work up to two rounds to make sure there's no double tapping before I put more rounds in the mag.

Something that would have been less stupid of you and Machine Gun Tony, would have been to place three rounds in the gun at a time, and place your hands on top of the barrel shroud to keep it from rising.

 

[bigbang]

Its nothing wrong if an adult applies for the Darwin Award. If parents do it for their kids its irresponsible.
Wolf

 

[hairball II]

Its nothing wrong if an adult applies for the Darwin Award. If parents do it for their kids its irresponsible.
Wolf

not just grossly irresponcible, but it should be actionable. The kind of people that 'play' with guns and allow their children to have 'crash courses' in firearms that most adults have to train with to use safely just make it hard for responcible people to fight the hoplophobes.

My girls I worked up in levels of power and action. Sure, by 9, my oldest daughter was ready for my .44 Desert Eagle. It took her a while to get there. I, being a loving, responcible adult and parent would not concieve of letting my daughter shoot a machine gun after a 'crash' course. I recall how interesting it was for me to learn how to shoot a full auto. I was 19, then, and it was an adventure even with a certified instructor who had been trained by the military in the use of said weapons.

It is not a toy. Do NOT treat it as one. Here, we are seeing consquences of people that treated it as such.

 

[EricOKC]

not just grossly irresponcible, but it should be actionable. The kind of people that 'play' with guns and allow their children to have 'crash courses' in firearms that most adults have to train with to use safely just make it hard for responcible people to fight the hoplophobes.

My girls I worked up in levels of power and action. Sure, by 9, my oldest daughter was ready for my .44 Desert Eagle. It took her a while to get there. I, being a loving, responcible adult and parent would not concieve of letting my daughter shoot a machine gun after a 'crash' course. I recall how interesting it was for me to learn how to shoot a full auto. I was 19, then, and it was an adventure even with a certified instructor who had been trained by the military in the use of said weapons.

It is not a toy. Do NOT treat it as one. Here, we are seeing consquences of people that treated it as such.

Hair,
I know, since I last posted, I think back to Ghostcat allowing a nine year old child to shoot a firearm that posed a threat to herself and bystanders, and it still floors me.

The fact that they were trusting her life and theirs to release after three rounds would have me rolling on the floor laughing...if it wasn't so scary and sad...

"Well, officer, we told her to release after three rounds, but she wouldn't let go. She does just fine at home with video games."

I guess it gives you "bragging rights" to tell people that your little girl shot a machine gun, I dunno'.

 

[Mike In memoriam]

Why did they not put only three rounds in the little girl's mag.
Same same the little boy.
We did something like that with trainees and M14s, later 16s.

I trained Montagnard tribesmen with M16s.
It got scary even though many had been using M2s.

Handing a small child or most anybody a fully loaded automatic weapon with no previous experience is lunacy.

Nobody wins in this sad story.

 

[Harpers Ferry Arsenal]

A big issue now is the criminal charges being brought against the gun club. If the club is convicted as a corporate entity under Mass. law, the club loses it's right to have any shooting there at all--basically wiping out the entire gun club.

 

[bigbang]

And right so, Harpers, there is something definately wrong with the staff and the president of this club.

 

[hairball II]

Hair,
I know, since I last posted, I think back to Ghostcat allowing a nine year old child to shoot a firearm that posed a threat to herself and bystanders, and it still floors me.

The fact that they were trusting her life and theirs to release after three rounds would have me rolling on the floor laughing...if it wasn't so scary and sad...

"Well, officer, we told her to release after three rounds, but she wouldn't let go. She does just fine at home with video games."

I guess it gives you "bragging rights" to tell people that your little girl shot a machine gun, I dunno'.

Well, we have seen how some LOVE to brag about really stupid stuff, like how they wuold sic their dobies, or what their dobies would do to someone they didn't like.

Just a lot of blustering that does nothing more than show how shallow and insipid the braggart is. Even now, though my kids are grown, in their 20s, with kids of their own, I would watch, teach and regulate how my daughter handle a gun, particularly a machine gun.

I guess the difference is, some would prefer to brag, and the rest of us actually LOVE our kids and think first of their safety, and not about internet bragging rights.

Mike brings home the truth of this from his experiance, which any of us who have been involved, and learned, from responcible proffesionals can attest to.

 

[Hambone]

The tragedy started to unfold when they let a child shoot a Micro-Uzi to begin with. Him shooting it with the stock folded, improperly, with a 15 year old "supervising" him was even worse. I don't like shooting Micro-Uzi's particularly, preferring full size SMGs with cyclic rates around 500-600. I can list all the other malfunctions with such a scenario.

First hand accounts are that the thing got away from him, recoiling up and to the left, and that a round entered under his chin and exited the left side of his head at his ear. He was screaming as they put him in the ambulance. This kind of criminally negligent conduct is what hurts NFA owners.

Here's another couple nitwits giving their inexperienced buddy a Glock 18 to shoot, with predictable consequences. A Glock 18 is about the only thing I can think of worse than a Micro-Uzi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow

 

[m1aman]

Knee-Jerk reaction to a Tragic Accident.......I can relate to this story actually.....I took my daughter to the Shooting range when she was 9 yrs old......A guy was there ("MachineGun Tony") with a large selection of Full Autos....Tony is a class-2 Manufacturer.
He was Charging $10 a 30rnd mag to fire his guns.
I paid to let my Daughter shoot the Full auto UZI 9mm......We gave her a Crash course prior to letting her shoot.....we kept telling her, Pull trigger and Release immediatley.....that way it would be something like a 3-rnd burst.....on her first trigger pull, she spit out about 10 rnds and the muzzle was climbing before she let go......after that, she realized to Pull the trigger and release which she did for the remaining of the MAG......so I can see how this happened.....but no one needs to get sued here....just a tragic Accident.

holy crap! you just can't stop showing everyone how dim you are can you? give an untrained child a full auto weapon? you are unfit to be a parent.

 

[hairball II]

holy crap! you just can't stop showing everyone how dim you are can you? give an untrained child a full auto weapon? you are unfit to be a parent.

Hey, don't be so hard on him. If life is anything like fair, the next time he does something that stupid, his child could remove herself and daddy from the gene pool, and we will be cursed with one less poseur and its spawn.

All ya gotta do is look on the bright side.

 

[GhostCat]

Alright ya bunch of Pansies.....let me spell it out a little clearer......My 9-yr old daughter is shooting a Full auto UZI with two grown men standing right along side her to stop the gun from getting away from her........Yes, she let 10 rnds go and the muzzle climbed a little.....but think about it.....How much is the muzzle gonna climb with the 9mm round anyway????......not much......It was a perfectly SAFE and CONTROLLED situation.......

If you Pansies are too scared to let your children shoot a Full auto weapon, how will we ever get more involved in the sport?????......or let me guess...only you are responsible enough and experienced enough to shoot a gun......Give me a Break......You're a bunch of crybaby wanna-bees......

 

[BRussell]

Hey, don't be so hard on him. If life is anything like fair, the next time he does something that stupid, his child could remove herself and daddy from the gene pool, and we will be cursed with one less poseur and its spawn.

All ya gotta do is look on the bright side.

Great to see you here Hairball.

 

[GhostCat]

you are unfit to be a parent.

I'm prefectly FIT to be a Parent......My nearly 17 yr. old daughter has probably accomplished more in life than you ever have....She's a very responsible, caring, SMART, Beautiful young lady who has already accomplished much..........But thanks for your concern about my parenting skills.......just shows you're not fit to be a true southerner and you don't deserve to fly my flag.....

Great to see you here Hairball.

BRussell.....watch what you put in your mouth....you might come up with a "HAIRBALL".........Talk about sucking up, good grief!!!!!......Pathetic!!!!