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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, I had a question concerning the GP11 ammo and I am sure it has been asked before and I searched it a few times as well, but I was wondering if this ammo is corrosive? Everyone so far has said no but I was wanting advice from everyone here as well.

After shooting my Swiss rifles I cleaned and lubed them all properly and about a week and a half later I went to check my barrels and noticed a small, 5 o clock haze in all the barrels. I am not sure if it's rust of just debris that somehow got in to the barrel after cleaning? All my rifles are stored properly in my house and none of my other rifles have ever encountered an issue like this.

Thank you in advance for the help!
 

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GP11 is not corrosive.

My Swiss rifles/carbines are 100 and 60 years old respectively - neither have the slightest trace of anything in their barrels except a blinding shine.

tac
 

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As tac states, not corrosive. Definitely the best quality military ammunition ever issued to troops.

But then I suppose, we should expect such quality from a nation than produces the finest time-pieces ever made.

ukrifleman.
 

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I don't think GP11 has ever used corrosive priming. You must remember however that one of the largest constituents of burned powder gas is water vapor. I'm sure that is one reason the Swiss use grease to "clean" their barrels. Keep the moisture away from the metal and it won't rust. Corrosive primers contain potassium perchlorate which becomes potassium chloride when fired. Potassium and Sodium are very similar and the chloride salts are also very similar in that they are hygroscopic....they absorb water. Since they pull water out of the air that is what causes the corrosion. So we're back to the beginning here. Grease the bore and prevent moisture from contacting the steel and you won't have any corrosion.

Frank
 

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I don't think GP11 has ever used corrosive priming. You must remember however that one of the largest constituents of burned powder gas is water vapor. I'm sure that is one reason the Swiss use grease to "clean" their barrels. Keep the moisture away from the metal and it won't rust. Corrosive primers contain potassium perchlorate which becomes potassium chloride when fired. Potassium and Sodium are very similar and the chloride salts are also very similar in that they are hygroscopic....they absorb water. Since they pull water out of the air that is what causes the corrosion. So we're back to the beginning here. Grease the bore and prevent moisture from contacting the steel and you won't have any corrosion.

Frank
Yup, just like we've been doing since the late 1870's.....funny enough, it seems to work.

tac
 

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Does this process "season" the bore for the Swiss kind of like what is done with black powder or "traditional muzzle loaders." That was the first thing I was taught was about seasoning the bore on my Kentucky long rifle. I have never used anything but bore butter for them which animal fat was used back in the day but, its funny how the bore butter and Swiss grease look and smell the same. :) I don't think there is any direct correlation to Bore Butters product but I bet Waffenfett would be a superior cleaner/lube/protector.

Once you get a muzzle loader seasoned really well it requires a lot less swabbing and holds up much better to storage and nasty black powder alternatives that are high in sulfur content. I don't think I have ever picked up a K31 since I saw my first in a mil surp grab barrel in 2005 and had nothing less than a near immaculate bore. My first was a beech wood stock rode hard but mechanically and bore in excellent/immaculate condition.

I would stick with the Waffenfett grease because a solvent might be counter productive to the process by which the Swiss cleaned the K31. Solvents and oils that are not removed from the bore after cleaning can contribute to corrosion with relative humidity being a factor as well. The GP11 cartridge is the finest mil surp I have ever used or put on the shelf IMHO. It is definitely non corrosive. On that I would say the K series GP11 firing rifles are superior in quality of build, accuracy and value to anything Curio Relic that I know of. Century are d*cks for putting those bill boards on a recent batch. It was a big FU to somebody. Century is notorious for bill boards but someone thought that out. Coffee is working...
 

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Does this process "season" the bore for the Swiss kind of like what is done with black powder or "traditional muzzle loaders." That was the first thing I was taught was about seasoning the bore on my Kentucky long rifle. I have never used anything but bore butter for them which animal fat was used back in the day but, its funny how the bore butter and Swiss grease look and smell the same. :) I don't think there is any direct correlation to Bore Butters product but I bet Waffenfett would be a superior cleaner/lube/protector.

Once you get a muzzle loader seasoned really well it requires a lot less swabbing and holds up much better to storage and nasty black powder alternatives that are high in sulfur content. I don't think I have ever picked up a K31 since I saw my first in a mil surp grab barrel in 2005 and had nothing less than a near immaculate bore. My first was a beech wood stock rode hard but mechanically and bore in excellent/immaculate condition.

I would stick with the Waffenfett grease because a solvent might be counter productive to the process by which the Swiss cleaned the K31. Solvents and oils that are not removed from the bore after cleaning can contribute to corrosion with relative humidity being a factor as well. The GP11 cartridge is the finest mil surp I have ever used or put on the shelf IMHO. It is definitely non corrosive. On that I would say the K series GP11 firing rifles are superior in quality of build, accuracy and value to anything Curio Relic that I know of. Century are d*cks for putting those bill boards on a recent batch. It was a big FU to somebody. Century is notorious for bill boards but someone thought that out. Coffee is working...
I bleeve you'll find that Waffenfett came before 'Bore Butter'. ;)

Just sayin'.

tac
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you all for the information! I cleaned out the barrels again and it showed no pitting or anything so I'm assuming it was just me poorly cleaning them the first time or some how moisture got in them and touched the bore.

What do you all use to properly lube the rifles bore? Whenever I clean mine I use a bore snake with CLP on the end to oil it as it leaves the barrel.
 

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Solvents and oils that are not removed from the bore after cleaning can contribute to corrosion with relative humidity being a factor as well...
I understand that there are harsh solvents/bore cleaners that can etch your bore if left in past the recommended time...but OILS. How can oil "contribute to corrosion"? Can anyone name such an oil or explain an oils contribution to corrosion? This would not just be a failure to protect if I read the statement correctly.
 

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I understand that there are harsh solvents/bore cleaners that can etch your bore if left in past the recommended time...but OILS. How can oil "contribute to corrosion"? Can anyone name such an oil or explain an oils contribution to corrosion? This would not just be a failure to protect if I read the statement correctly.
An oil can "contribute" to corrosion by failing to create a complete, impermeable coating. Lacking access to a supply of Waffenfett, I use Ballistol on all of my milsurps with lapped barrels, for which no bore brushing is needed if the bore is properly cleaned. I always pull a few Ballistol patches at the range while the barrel is still warm. BTW Swiss ammunition was noncorrosive because it used a mercuric primer. This made the brass unsuitable for reloading. GP11 was made with the nonmercuric and noncorrosive Sinoxid primer after 1950.
 

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Time to be stoned again but here goes: If you don't have the Waffenfett, then RIG bore if you must grease it. I say must grease it as the tribe here is sold on doing this and its got a huge track record of keeping bores wonderful. You can't go wrong ... its over kill for protection and as said: it works.

I just use Ballistol in the bore
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thank you all for the grease advice! I will have to give them a shot and see which one is better.
 

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Thank you all for the grease advice! I will have to give them a shot and see which one is better.
Groan.

The Swiss have been using their method since they adopted a magazine-fed rifle shortly after your recent civil war.

It has worked since then for everybody that uses this method.

It seems pretty pointless to me to try and prove it doesn't work.

tac
 

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I bleeve you'll find that Waffenfett came before 'Bore Butter'. ;)

Just sayin'.

tac
I was trying to be humble in my post. Just pointing out that using solvents in a seasoned bore is counterproductive. I was realizing while I was posting that the Swiss rifles had seasoned bores. Not to be redundant but the cleaning method used was extremely effective proven by the mirror bores in these rifles. After probably being cleaned decades ago for the last time before we ever started spraying solvents down the pipe. I'm not brand new I promise ;)
 

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I understand that there are harsh solvents/bore cleaners that can etch your bore if left in past the recommended time...but OILS. How can oil "contribute to corrosion"? Can anyone name such an oil or explain an oils contribution to corrosion? This would not just be a failure to protect if I read the statement correctly.
Oil under copper can cause pitting. Excess oil can attract dust. Dust can absorb moisture. I hate I didn't scientifically explain giving exact links or borrow Nelson Mandala's sign language guy to appear in my post so someone like you wouldn't bust a spring countering my statement. I am positive I had you "ignored" on my settings. I guess I changed some not remembering why I had you there. I remember now...
 

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BTW Swiss ammunition was noncorrosive because it used a mercuric primer.

Leon, mercuric primers were the worst kind of corrosive primers there was in the past. If the Swiss used mercuric primers, then that ammo was corrosive. I don't know but maybe they changed to Sinoxid primers very early on, Sinoxid primers were introduced in very early 1920's if not earlier but I can't remember properly.
 
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