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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Folks that don't shoot in the field don't understand that you aren't going to get "cover" behind a tree or car (unless at the engine area) when someone is making a go at you with .30 cal, 8mm, etc., with FMJ, much less AP. Actually, the most bullet resistant material on a car is the front windshield.

There are great vids on this site. A recent one is the firing squad execution of a German general who ordered the execution of 15 American special ops troops who went ashore in Italy dressed as civilians. Not to take up for doing that, but I thought such people were defined as spies and subject to such punishment.
 

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Not a bad way to cut down a tree..
Oh yea, willy-pete is for smokescreens but MAY cause wounds too!
Lastly, those BAR guys were big time targets and often were the first to take enemy fire..the film does not mention keeping low, I guess that part of the training came later.
 

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Thanks for the link, that's a great vid. I remember shooting a 30.06 ap into a piece of concrete about 5 inches think, I found the bullet laying beside the concrete as it had went through. It looked just like a new one except that a little concrete had fused to the side of it. I also shot through oaks alot bigger than the one in the vid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not a bad way to cut down a tree..
Oh yea, willy-pete is for smokescreens but MAY cause wounds too!
Lastly, those BAR guys were big time targets and often were the first to take enemy fire..the film does not mention keeping low, I guess that part of the training came later.
You're right Chas. Alot of that is propaganda, particularly those chaps with that heavy high mounted M1917 vs. a proned out MG.34 ;) WP for smoke, and just shoot their equipment with an M2......
 

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Being former Infantry, I appreciate the effects of FMJ from full power calibers.

I remember once doing a a bunker assault live fire range lane, I was an M60 gunner at the time. It was a heavily wooded lane, big oaks around the bunker. We hammered the bunker from out support position, then we shifted fire left into the treeline as the manuever element swept in and finished up.

Afterwards, we went downrange to look it over. Large, old growth oaks do NOT stop 7.62x51 NATO.

Next time you watch a movie, consider this. It's crazy what people think will stop a bullet. For those in the profession of arms, it is a sobering thought. With a car, the engine block, maybe. The slope of the windshield will help with pistol rounds, but 5.56 goes right through. I know that for a fact.

Chas, I read a good article in a WWII "Yank" magazine about old Infantry hands telling new guys how to fight. They bitched that the new guys always tried to lay down and shoot back. They said "You can't hit nothin' lying on the ground, you have to stand up and shoot!"

Wow.

Jeff
 

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There are great vids on this site. A recent one is the firing squad execution of a German general who ordered the execution of 15 American special ops troops who went ashore in Italy dressed as civilians. Not to take up for doing that, but I thought such people were defined as spies and subject to such punishment.


Ham,
Commandos out of uniform are subject to execution but only after being tried before a properly constituted court martial with all legal protections (The Hague Convention). Hitler was really P.O'd about Allied commando raids and issued orders stating that all commandos ,in or out of uniform, were to be summarily shot. That's why Gen. Dotsler got capped. The US shot the Skorzeny commandos only after they had been tried and sentenced as per the rules.

Best regards,
Len
 

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Brutal video, very thankful I never had to deal with anything like that.
I once asked pap if any of the units he served with used the MP44 and he said no they had some MP43's but they weren't much good because the Kurz ammo was in such short supply. Said the MP43-44's were solid and reliable, but they were heavy and clunky, and the auto feature wasted the scarce ammo.
His favorite gun by far was the .30 Carbine (they captured plenty of them during the Ardennes Offensive). In his opinion, it was the best infantry rifle of the war - light and easy to carry, semi-auto didn't waste ammo, the ammo was small therefore an individual could carry lots of it, plus the ammo was 'effective enough'.
 

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"Willy Peter makes you a believer."

I had to carry a M2 carbine for my first couple months in the bush in RVN with the CIDG.

I felt like I had brought a toy gun to a gunfight.
I had owned a couple prior to service and they were good for groundhogs.

In the real world you rarely get to prioritise your target-like a BAR gunner.
You get the one that presents himself-mainly as you are most likely in his sight picture as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Len,
I mean, how much of a "trial" was afforded the Skorzeny commandos? American soldiers caught in Italian civilian garb armed, behind German lines, and one of them rolled over on the bunch telling why they were there. I doubt the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and Evidence was applied and there was motion practice, etc. That said, the execution of that German general is AOK by me. By that time in the war he should have known his number was going to come up and cut those chaps a little slack.
Cheers,
HB
 

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videos

thanks I really enjoyed that. added it to my favorites. By the way on the 30 carbine. My Dad landed with one at Normandy and carried it all the way through the battle of the bulge. I have it today. He said it was basically worthless against a german in heavy winter clothing. Said it took sometime half a magazine to kill one determined german. I have shot deer with it and I agree. Not worth much. 30/06 thats the way you do it. thanks again.
 

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"Willy Peter makes you a believer."

I had to carry a M2 carbine for my first couple months in the bush in RVN with the CIDG.

I felt like I had brought a toy gun to a gunfight.
I had owned a couple prior to service and they were good for groundhogs.

In the real world you rarely get to prioritise your target-like a BAR gunner.
You get the one that presents himself-mainly as you are most likely in his sight picture as well.
Mike, you were issued an M1 carbine? I have little faith in the 5.56, but is was my issue weapon in combat. I also had an M203 (or more accurately, my M203 was my weapon, 5.56 and 40mm, as the M4 wih grenade launcher is the M203).

I fired the grenade launcher incombat more frequently than the M4, but my job was convoy escort, and the M2 did the talking in most engagements. I had an ACOG. I used it more for observation and rangefinding than targeting.

Jeff
 

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I always felt the M2 carbine should be considered more of a submachinegun than a rifle.

Great site, I've seen a lot of clips from those movies on TV, but never knew of a place to view the whole movies.
 
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