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My Gew is an Obernforf 1915 - SN 8450g. Mostly matching except bolt, rear guard screw, follower, and bolt stop. Bolt matches itself and is 8391i.
 

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Quite nice, I answered your questions in the other thread- as did Greg & Runner- but do a close up of the right receiver acceptance?

Need 4 angles where ever possible- very important to my research as I am tracking barrel blank providers (at least 6 different ones I believe, Storz doesn't mention all noted, and some 'possibly' could be duplicate codes of the same provider or finisher variations to code but I tend to think there is a possibility there are more than the 3 Storz notes.); also track acceptance and this is VERY important to late war products (especially DWM & Oberspree products); and serial numbers of course so we can categorize the production properly.

Need top/right/left receiver and the barrel code wherever possible.

My Gew is an Obernforf 1915 - SN 8450g. Mostly matching except bolt, rear guard screw, follower, and bolt stop. Bolt matches itself and is 8391i.
 

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If only others would try half as hard! Wonderful pics!

I am studying German steel producers and there are a surprising number from Imperial era (numbers of firms, some small others significant- many associated with one another, - not surprisingly! More than a dozen in Silesia alone!), seems this 'BS' is the one closest associated with Mauser during the war, - so far only Mauser (1915-1917) examples and one Spandau (1915) has shown this code.
Not sure its Böhler but its true the various steel mfg had different codes in use by different end users.. Böhler had several codes and logos, and on helmets they were reportedly GB, numerous barrel observations (pre & during the war) BÖ, and some variations depending on who you read.. I have a few thoughts to BS other than Böhler but still working on it.
Possibly a variation as to finisher and date (perhaps Mauser in this time frame changed its designation? (they did use BÖ pre-war certainly); perhaps different finishers had different codes in use as helmet makers vs barrels? (GB equals the same as BÖ at around the same time frame- Böhler I am unsure of if they were actual finishers of the helmets or whether Böhlers Berlin facility used a different code? Than Austrian facilities?

Anyway, this is the purpose of this thread- to answer or try to answer these types of questions. Your images and willingness to try and photograph the areas is what makes it possible. (hence my elaboration.. I try to reciprocate when collectors share data, - this is the only way it should work.)

Thanks for the great pics and I hope my ruminating helps on your barrel code.


Here is the best I can get, I tried to keep them as hi-res as I could.
 

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Missing the buttplate? Seems so in the auction pics? Quite a good pick up really as even bolt m/m are getting hard to find these days (for most of us!)
Yeah the buttplate is missing, and there are a few chips and a crack because of it. But like the guy said in the auction description, how can a gun lose its buttplate, and the screw holes are filled with what I hope is trench dirt. So I think I'm just going to leave it plate-less. other than that its a nice stock though; many imperial stamps and the number matches.
 

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Yeah the buttplate is missing, and there are a few chips and a crack because of it. But like the guy said in the auction description, how can a gun lose its buttplate, and the screw holes are filled with what I hope is trench dirt. So I think I'm just going to leave it plate-less. other than that its a nice stock though; many imperial stamps and the number matches.

The buttplate was likely removed by some well intentioned bubba long ago. To think the holes for the woodscrews are filled with "trench dirt" is a silly presumtion.
To leave off the buttplate - that's like leaving off the handguard.You have already mentioned some of the damage because it is missing - I'd put one on it pronto. The screw holes are very possibly filled with old "mud dobber" wasp nests.
When you find old mud encrusted under a buttplate it is usually only a tiny bit...and usually the butt will be darkended from the water contact. Ever see pics of the soldiers in the great war with the butts of their rifles swimming in mud. Look for SMLE's , gew/kar98a's , lebels etc etc with butts darkened from water immersion ( mud ) and you likely have found a peice that was well used in the trenches.
 

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The buttplate was likely removed by some well intentioned bubba long ago. To think the holes for the woodscrews are filled with "trench dirt" is a silly presumtion.
To leave off the buttplate - that's like leaving off the handguard.You have already mentioned some of the damage because it is missing - I'd put one on it pronto. The screw holes are very possibly filled with old "mud dobber" wasp nests.
When you find old mud encrusted under a buttplate it is usually only a tiny bit...and usually the butt will be darkended from the water contact. Ever see pics of the soldiers in the great war with the butts of their rifles swimming in mud. Look for SMLE's , gew/kar98a's , lebels etc etc with butts darkened from water immersion ( mud ) and you likely have found a peice that was well used in the trenches.
I don't want to sound naive, but I still think the buttplate was lost prior to the end of the war. The chips themselves are filled with a good deal of mud, and, especially on the upper and lower bottom of the stock, there are black marks that indicate water damage. However, the dark spots do not go very far up on the stock, except underneath, where it reaches to the first proof mark. There, and I just noticed this, is also black on the edge of the butt thats looks like it was caused by being trapped by the buttplate, but there is also a chip that has apparent blackness in it. I cleaned out the lower screw hole and the dirt was very black but came out easily enough. The top hole is almost collapsed though, and I'm not going to try to clear it.

It all comes down to what you want to believe though. I don't really think someone removed the buttplate with the intention of "fixing it up" then let it sit in water, but I guess it could have happened. For now it sits in a safe place where it won't be chipped anymore. When I take it out to shoot I'll take the buttplate off my Turkish 93 and use for the day.
 

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Of course impossible to prove or be certain- impossible to prove something wasn't or isn't.. however I think the best course is to either put a buttplate on it to prevent future damage or to display it where its not resting on its buttstock.
To use the rifle in anyway without a buttplate will only further damage the buttstock.

I do agree that its clearly been off for a longtime and past owners thought little to fix it as its quite chipped already. Probably wouldn't be a straight forward repair putting that buttplate on either as my experience with re-attaching a buttplate on a 36 S/147 showed, - that top hole isn't as easy to perfectly line up when you actually try it (looks easier than it is)

Up to you of course, as it is your property- thanks for sharing the data!
 

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What might the suffix (letter under serial number) be? I see it in your pics but your pics are very poor and hard to tell details? (they are known to the 'n' block, potentially more? By serial ranges not a rare or scarce rifle? Not at all?)

Nothing sells a rifle like quality pics, especially if you seek top dollar- like $800-900 certainly is for a DC, heavily patinaed rifle? Not a bad maker but for such a rifle you might consider quality pics for your sell?

As discussed elsewhere, VCS is an interesting maker, as is CGH & S&S, in that considering reported highs and production numbers recorded there are a very few remaining in original trim, quality and to be honest I can't doubt the possibility the 3 makers combined production? (more than what Storz suggests, more than simple collaboration?)

MarkW once told me he found of all the war time makers S&S the hardest to find matching, original & quality? How could that be with so high reporting between the three? VCS & Sauer to the 'o' block minimally & CGH to 'K' in 1917 alone? (much higher in 1916?)

Well if you observe a database over 4-5 years as we currently have there is few and far between amongst these makers observed? Yet high block reporting?

Perhaps more than collaboration?

V. Chr. Schilling
Suhl
1917


# 8082
 

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Awesome!

Really good to confirm the stock is original to the rifle as if you go by patterns of mfg/date/serialing & unit markings within the 98a database you can see these were issued in batches and some we have been able to identify with the same unit the same mfg/date/serial ranges to the same units. (we have several very close in mfg/serial with very close unit markings, a couple sets of 3)
Naturally the Gewehr98's are much harder to find pre-war original stocked and its a harder pattern to follow, but if you assume the Gewehr98's were issued similar to the 98a (and some bayonet comparisons) then these may have been group together for delivery in batches? Depots first of course, but tended to go to the units in batches as well?

Anyway, its good to know when a rifle has its original stock if it has a unit marking- for this purpose. (for one thing I have two Garde marked stock sets I'd like to get a feel for what actions were in it originally!)




Stock matches, the handguard doesn't.
View attachment 48833

I haven't had it apart to check # inside.
 

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I have a Gew 98 here, mismatched everything, but the barrel, reciever, and rear sight.

All full military, with a unique proof on the LH side of the receiver. I have no idea what it is. I'll get a good pic of it, and post it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Info as fol:
Gew 98
Simson & Co Suhl, 1916
SN 1811g
 

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Awesome, my favorite subject!

Try and get the barrel code, it will most likely be under the wood line so disassembly is needed. If you can take pics, do them of the top/right/left receiver, barrel markings, barrel code most especially. If its a tangent rearsight upgrade all of the rear sight bits if matched (usually the sleeve is original.)

These days I have developed the database to incorporate the barrel code data and as always the right receiver acceptance is very critical.

On a note to Simson Suhl enthusiasts, Joe Steen submitted his article last week, 4 pages on the S28 (often time attributed to Simson Suhl- though some are more convinced than others) I will lead with this article next issue of the MRJ. (not surprisingly..)


I have a Gew 98 here, mismatched everything, but the barrel, reciever, and rear sight.

All full military, with a unique proof on the LH side of the receiver. I have no idea what it is. I'll get a good pic of it, and post it. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Info as fol:
Gew 98
Simson & Co Suhl, 1916
SN 1811g
 
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