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Yes, this is the 8424 pp I thought you were referring to back in August; you didn't show enough to be sure and you referenced xx24 rr with your pics, at the time I never followed it up with you as June-Aug were bad times for us here..

Anyway, these are "p" rather than "r" imo, though it could be "n" which it is often reported as? We have one "r" reported for 1917 Danzig and though the picture is not especially wonderful it is clear they used a font much like a typed "r" for "r".. if you look through fraktur charts this "appears" to be more a "p" to me than a "n" but I thought this a perfect time to discuss this as both PeterS and CB understand German and have studied the subject as well as any I know and I thought their insight might prove helpful (as CB recently pointed out collecting period German/English dictionaries are a good idea for researchers?).

As one can tell, images of the suffix is VERY important to determine range, a report with an improper suffix is worthless to a database (only that Ken & I have shared data extensively did I have a good idea of the rifle he was referring to..)? I have half a dozen charts that breakdown the fraktur type lettering (another name is used but escapes me at the moment) and even these charts don't agree so that we have used different letters is no surprise!

Anyway, insight from CB or PeterS might resolve this dilemma? (usually not so important knowing with certainty the letters but in 1916 Danzig's case the reported high is in this range, and we have several reported)


Oops, forgot the money shot! Barrel & receiver serial 16 Danzig 8724rr.
 

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Yo Paul,

I'd love to see this thread resurrected, as it has been the most informational thread in regards to the gewehr98 anywhere on the internet.
By the way, yes I too am glad TP took the time to resurrect this thread, not only the best thread on the Gewehr98 throughout the entire internet but also the best thread on gunboards as a whole- of course I am slightly bias on the subject..
 

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may be this one will help...

it is named "Deutsche Kurrentschrift" and in my understood these are the "official" Letters....

but some characters are nor easy to differ...
 

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Thanks Peter, indeed it does, - typical of about 3/4 of the charts I have available it doesn't fit my "p" scenario, though it doesn't support others either?

I have a good number of similar charts, Noll, Götz, and a few others easy to obtain are good for those with an interest, as is a internet search.. my favorites are Ken Huddles chart and one by Don Hallock's which I use most often as I like to use "collectors" charts over book or internet charts simply because of experience matters when utilizing observation over book/reading fonts? (Jeff Noll has a decent chart but its small and I think came from a book- memory here? Ken's & Don's are large!)

Anyway, here is a cut from Ken's chart that covers the three potentials (to my thinking), I believe CB once suggested another interpretation for some of Ken's observations (my Spandau thread a few months back) and that is fine but I still prefer Ken's observations until something better comes along.. right now when I have a quandary I pull them all out and review other rifles of the same era/mfg and try to make a determination.

In this case I am just waiting for the right 1915-1917 Danzig to come along with a different "p" or "n" to settle this question for me; until then I will call it a "p" but maintain an open mind to other potentials.

Thanks for the reply- and the chart!
 

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Hope this one helps you some. My hand rendering of the suffix is crude, at best, but is pretty close.

The bolt body seems to have an "i" suffix (9481 i).
 

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Very nice! Simson barrel.. even has the logo!

DO more pics if you've a mind to? Also a date for the Mauser Oberndorf would be great! (can’t catalog w/o a date- As always on all reporting I like to see as much as possible but primarily, top/right/left receiver, barrel coding rearsight marking if tangent.. ) the development of barrel code tracking for the database has really taken me in a interesting direction and I am really following the sub-contractor and barrel blank providers- most importantly for the Weimar era reworks through nazi era.

On rifles such as this it is especially important to see the barrel coding, tangent markings, and right receiver, as these are important spots for data collection. Though on straight ups the right receiver is also important as with the revelations from Dr. Storz book (highly recommend if you can afford the monster book) and my tracking right receiver acceptance marks some patterns are being seen.

Thanks!
Hope this one helps you some. My hand rendering of the suffix is crude, at best, but is pretty close.

The bolt body seems to have an "i" suffix (9481 i).
 

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I'll do what I can. What is the Simson logo, btw. This is an old closet resident that's been hidden away for many years. Never gave it much mind since it was not matching. 1917.

I'll get back with a few photos.
 

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beech is very common to 1917, or after.. they start in 1916 but we have at least one that is 1915 and that is extraordinarily early.
Of course does the stock match? As its been reworked it very well could have a new stock from its later rework. (what does the rearsight look like- image the markings under the sight rail); the Simson logo is to the right of your barrels serial number, this varied from time to time and product to product, generally a triangle/mountain with an "S" inside, size limitations made the full logo impractical I assume as the full logo most encountered is a mountain range of 3 triangles with a "S" inside the prominent center triangle.. of course there is also the stand alone "S" which some collectors are accused of attributing everything "S" to Simson though other makers at certain times used for whatever purpose (Mauser for example uses "S" variations similar in narrow ranges.)

Anyway, the e/6 is also the most common Simson Suhl acceptance stamp- and most consistent throughout 1923-1932 production though I can't say there is any "great" work that explains the multitude of Simson attributed acceptance marks- one could make an argument for sub-contracting here but that is another subject altogether.

Weimar/Reichsheer era is the least well understood or researched imo, - much work to be done I think, - even a Dr. Storz saw fit to end his research at 1918!

If you have the inclination, do images of any markings on the buttstock (wrist markings if any, takedown disc or buttplate- clues to reworking may be found here if present at all) the rearsight will very possibly narrow the reowrk down some too, any markings on the rearsight sleeve besides the 8mm import marking?

Thanks for the effort on images, very good of you!
 

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Very typical, though if there is any reworking facility indicators it will usually be found on the wrist, buttstock, takedown disc or buttplate.. This is an earlier rework, - the rearsight might help date it or identify it possibly, though as the barrel is Simson acceptance/made and the f/p is early you have a feel for time frame, just as with any rework the bigger the picture and the fuller the puzzle fills the better "guesses" will be!

Cool rifle- though I am slightly biased toward Simson SUhl..
 

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I envy your understanding of these weapons. I obviously need to work on my skills. If it was a Russian or Chinese SKS, I could probably hold a reasonable conversation.

If the Sun comes out today, I'll get some more, better photos. It's very gloomy out now.
 

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Everyone has their passion, unfortunately mine is one you can't make much money at!

In reality I am somewhat a novice myself at all this, only since 1999 have I collected the Imperial side, started with Weimar and up to 1939 production since 1984 and that did help some as I have found out recently the period 1888-1945 is very closely connected in most ways, - most things that collectors with a narrow focus don't understand is most things were developed or at least considered much earlier, - sub-contracting a great example..

There are some collectors with great depth of understanding, far more advanced that I have a grip on things but by enlarge they are lurkers or refrain from comment/contribution, possibly because of time restraints, possibly because of the public nature of this venue, the lack of reciprocation, or possibly the daycare center escapees that run amuck on the forums?
Whatever the reason, it is no secret the most knowledgeable amongst us are lurkers, only brought out by catching their attention with something special or especially intriguing being discussed?

Didn't use to be that way.. even the newsletters don't attract them enough to participate anymore, I am having to drop 3 of the very best collectors I know of next issue.. very unpleasant.
 

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Interesting. I've been in SKS's for a few years and have noticed the same thing. There are a lot of guys out there who are really versed in SKS's but who tend to lay low much more than they used to. They're still there and speak out when an interesting one comes around (happens often with SKS's) or when one of our daycare newbies suggests something dangerously stupid.

Well, I separated the wood from the metal (perhaps the first time this under-metal has seen the light of day in decades.

The stock has only one external marking that I can see and that's just a little mark which looks more like a punch-mark than anything. It is just aft of the trigger group. The inside of the stock has a serial # 5280 (not matching) and then another apparent serial # 5286 (also not matching) which is handwritten.

I've included pictures of these, as well as 3 other pictures you might want to see. I have quite a number of others, if you want.

I think I'll clean this one up and leave it as is. It's in almost as good condition as my M96 Swede and I likes it's character. Wish I knew where it had been. The only question I have in this regard is - Is it proper to return the appropriate parts to "in the white" as was original, or should they be left in their re-arsenaled condition?

Edit - This rifle is a hoot. It looks as though an awful lot of good rifles gave their lives to see that this one made it out of the scrapheap. It's like everybody pitched in one part. It is such a cur that I think I will keep it.

Part & S#
Receiver 9052
Barrel 9052
Bayonet lug un-numbered? 1?
Trigger guard 7030
Trigger guard screws 29 & 69
Trigger 63
Follower 18
Floor Plate 30
Front barrel band 1873
Stacking hook N/A
Front sight 52
Rear sight leaf 2062
Rear sight base 38
Rear barrel band 58 (47?)
Ejector box 79
Bolt root 9481
Safety Z?
Cocking piece 03
Gas shield 86
Firing Pin ?
Extractor 31
Extractor Collar ?
Stock 5286 Handguard 7574
Butt Plate 1212
 

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Yes, it is quite mismatched!

The barreled receiver is the only original bits, that and the sleeve of the rearsight..e/6 is typical of Simson Suhl work and very likely this rifle was reworked there though most of the datable indicators are gone from the looks of it? (sometimes on the rearsight there are acceptance stamps that can be narrowed slightly.. of course the chicken f/p is early too..) Any more of the barrel would be lovely as I do collect barrel codes where ever possible..

As to reversal to bright/white I wouldn't even consider it.. I do tinker with screwed up rifles, parting them out and even scrapping some but I always try to keep original original wherever possible. (in this case I wouldn’t dinker with the barreled receiver/sleeve, - the rest is fair game if it were mine..)
Of course the rifle is your property and anything you do is alright by me- some get downright nasty about alterations, even altering rc 98k people think a crime?? – never get over how people rationalize their stands on things!

Any hoo, nice barreled receiver and thanks for sharing the data!
 

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When I get home from work tonight, I'll check out any barrel markings for you and send them if I see anything else.

My question about the bluing was generated because I had read somewhere that the bolt and a number of other parts left the factory "in the white". I was concerned about going back that way because I didn't want to give the impression that everything matched (for those that can't read little bitty numbers).

Thanks for your time.
 

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Yes, this rifle when it left the factory (in this case the receiver is all that is original to this time frame?) it was white/bright finished; the bolt would have been too, the barrel would have been blued.
Once it was reworked by Simson Suhl (most probably) it could have been either or as I have heard several references to when bluing started on reworks, but needless to say at some point it was blued, - probably late 20's?
That it has a Simson post war barrel most would assume it was blued when re-barreled/reworked as so far in my files I have not encountered a Simson re-barrel not blued?

If you were interested in a representative "Imperial" Gewehr98 you could do this as your rifle is in perfect configuration for this (well except for the tangent r/s), but really to find a righteous Imperial mismatch is fairly easy, and to alter this one would hardly be worth it I would think?

Hell half the time you can't even tell an Imperial Gewehr98 has a bright receiver! They patina over time and I have seen some as dark as allot of blued Weimar jobs!

Thanks again!
 

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You had mentioned something about rear sight markings. FYI, this is what I see:
On the right side down on the barrel are three eagles (1st photo)
The 3rd photo shows a "K", "38, "t", and what looks very much like a horizontal capital
"H" with a vertical capital "P" inside one side of the H and "74" in the other. This may
simply be a rectangle with a vertical line dividing it in two and the "P" in one box and
the "74" in the other. This is repeated on the sight spring.
The 4th photo shows an eagle on the right side elevation button.

You also mentioned barrel markings other than those on top behind the rear sight. Here is all I've found:
The 2nd photo shows a 2nd "8MM" just forward of the upper handguard on the left
side. Other than the aforementioned 3 eagles on the right under the rear sight and
the stuff on top, that's it.

Well, I appreciate the time you have taken. I learned a few things and I guess that's what it's all about. Thanks.
 

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Thanks for taking the time to detail the b/r further! If only others would take this much interest we'd know more I think.. most its pulling teeth to get a serial needless to say a barrel code!
The balance of the rearsight (the sleeve is original to the barrel, as might the other e/6 part possibly) has later mismatched parts on it, and they are easy enough to remove (than the sleeve) hence they probably were by some country post war, the P74 is a later acceptance than Simson's existence, 34-35 Mauser as I recall, 34 for sure..)

Anyway, thanks again!
 
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