[POLKEY]

i came across gew 88 carbine but i'm a little bit skeptical as to it's authenticity. all of the carbine's that i have seen have the turned down bolts and the "ears" protecting the front sights, this one has neither and i'm thinking this might be some gunsmith special. any comments welcome.
Polkey

 

[wyliecoyote]

On the left side rail, it does have a Gew 88 stamp, doesn't it?

Looks like a home made carbine from a Gew 88 rifle. Bolt as you noted does not have a downturned "spoon" bolt handle, also looks like a Gew 88 bolt. All the hardware appears to be made from Gew 88 parts.

A clever, interesting twist on a Gew 88. The stock appears to be an 88 stock too, the only thing that looks like it came off of an actual Kar 88 is the rear sight.

 

[Nick]

Sorry man, that's Bubba, not a real carbine. Here is a real Kar 88:

 

[Nick]

..A clever, interesting twist on a Gew 88...

Most likely the work of Mohamed Bubbaoglu from Turkey. I have seen several of these with slight variations in the "nose cap".

Funny, the REME Museum exhibits one such creation under the name Kar 88 (which it ain't).

 

[POLKEY]

That's what i thought and it does say Gew 88 not Kar 88 as mentioned, any idea on an approximate worth of this? it is fairly rusted/beat up and has one large dent in the barrel jacket, also appears the nose cap is made of brass?

also noted that the reciever is not cut like most S stamped gew 88"s

 

[richardwv]

It is a bubba shooter at best (assuming a decent bore). Now the bolt and various unaltered odds and ends add up to $60 plus in parts, so that is what I'd say it is worth....maybe a tad more if you feel generous.

Now if you could show that some country had done the mod, that would be different....but barring that, it is a bubba come lately.

 

[mag]

It is not a Turk since it is not a 05 . There has been some of those cutdowns with carbine sights come in with the South American batch . They all have been in that same poor , rusty condition.. mag

 

[Nick]

It is not a Turk since it is not a 05 ...

Not so fast, mag, and not so categorically, please. Look here: http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armgm88.htm#072

Carbine 7.92 mm GEW M1888

A modified version of Weapon No 72. It was originally made in 1891 at the Arsenal at Danzig. It retains the barrel jacket of the original model but both the barrel and jacket have been shortened to bring it in line with the KAR 88. This weapon has crude Arabic characters on the receiver which indicate that it probably saw service in North Africa or the Middle East.

This "carbine" has not been modified to 88/05, yet it is very likely Turkish ("...has crude Arabic characters...") - not South American for sure.

 

[mag]

All of the South American "carbines" that I have seen all have that same nosecap, are marked Gew-88 , have the Gew-88 bolt, a carbine rear sight, and are rusty. mag

 

[POLKEY]

All of the South American "carbines" that I have seen all have that same nosecap, are marked Gew-88 , have the Gew-88 bolt, a carbine rear sight, and are rusty. mag

would these south american "carbines" be worth any mare than your standard gew 88 in similar condition?

 

[DocAV]

Gew88 "Carbines"

These are actually "Short Rifles" ( ie, Musketoons) and NOT "Carbines".

There are three origins for them:
1. German Wholesalers (ALFA, AKAH) had some made from Gew88 (unconverted) in the early 1900s for sale in Export trade...they are usually listed as "Imitation" (of the original Military issue), and may have used non-accepted parts (ie, Serviceable, butm slightly out of spec).

2. Turkish conversion, 1920s (both Gew88 and Gew88/05) . The Turks came out of WW I and the War of Independance/Civil War/ greek War with loads of gew88s in Poor condition (no bolts, damaged jackets, etc) as well as having lost a lot of its original Mauser Carbines/short rifles. They immediately made up the shortfall by "repairing" these damaged rifles into "Short rifles" main indicator is a Turkish (arabic )script serial number, and a "z" marked bolt ( Brno supplied).

3. Your old American Faker... cutting down either Turkish or Equadorean Gew88s into "carbines" ( when actually they are Short rifles ( postion of sling swivels gives the game away.)

BTW, if the item has Long or shortened Long rear sights, it is Turkish or Equadorean;( or Fake); if it has replaced Carbine type sights, then it is a German Wholesaler conversion.

Take a good look at the item. The Turks (and the Wholesaler Models ) are relatively uncommon; Bubbas/fakes are more common...at least in the USA.
Bubbas well done and Turks are difficult to distinguish. (Normal Turk Gew88/05 don't have any Turkish Numbers except on the Bolt and rear sights...they retained their original German serials.

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics

 

[madboy357]

The rear sight appears to be a cut down Gew sight, note the subject 'carbine' uses a button that engages notches to set range (ala Gewehr 88) , a Kar88 rear sight uses slide friction alone.

The brass seen on the front band is the braze used to join the band to the front plate. These 2 components are steel.

 

[DocAV]

Imitation Karabiner

A review of the photos (I have a very very SLOOOW Dial Up system here) shows that the gun is a "Karabiner" in the Germanic sense, (even if marked "Gew88") as it has the following characteristics...side mounted sling swivels and a plain, "smooth " Nose cap (made from a rifle bayo. band) which allows the muzzle end to slide easily into a rifle Bucket on Horseback.
The reduction of the Long rear sight (Rifle) to "Carbine dimensions" also Points to a German Wholesaler Conversion. You would not get 95% of "Bubbas" doing such an involved job...nor an Ecuadorean either.

So if it is still "Gew88 Action ( Bloc-Clip fed) then i would say an ALFA/AKAH build up ("ImitationGewehr") for the South American market; but if there ANY Turkish marks on it anywhere, then it is a Turk 1920s conversion ( although the Turks had a majority of G88/05s).

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.

 

[wyliecoyote]

Nick

Did not pay enough attention to the excellant regimental stamp on the Kar 88 in your pics. B.1.M.II.2.8. Does that mean: Bavarian.light.Munitions Column. II (2). 2 Ko.8 waffe?

Also, what kind of screws hold in the action? Are they flat set screw types?

 

[keysrat]

I've seen Turkish GEW88's in both of the configurations pictured.
This one is a modified 88/05 that I picked up several years back.

 

[Nick]

Nick

Did not pay enough attention to the excellant regimental stamp on the Kar 88 in your pics. B.1.M.II.2.8. Does that mean: Bavarian.light.Munitions Column. II (2). 2 Ko.8 waffe?

Also, what kind of screws hold in the action? Are they flat set screw types?

I believe that's the meaning of the unit abbreviation. Being in a supply unit explains the really nice condition of the weapon. As far as screws go I will pull the carbine out after work and will take a few pictures.

 

[wyliecoyote]

Thank you for the response Nick! That is definitely one of the cooler regimentals, not often seen!

Geo

 

[Nick]

Here are the action screws. The gun is matching, so they are the original ones.

 

[wyliecoyote]

Thanks Nick!

A discussion came up at Commission Rifle at multiply.com regarding the presence of the flat type screws with the set screw on Gew 88's, Kar 88's, & Gew 91's.

http://commissionrifle.multiply.com/journal/item/136

Does anybody know the origin of that type screw and when they started showing up on Commission system weapons?

 

[fergus]

Definetly an Ecuadoran conversion of the the Gew 88 rifle. I've observed identically configured examples among the bunch imported by Val Forgett of OWS. I believe these were originally reworked by Ecuador with turned down bolts.......as I found a couple of examples within a batch of bolts I purchased from Val at a show some years ago.