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Copper Bullet member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I inquired about the legalities of getting a replacement K98k Mauser stock from overseas. The seller said there were no legal requirements for me to buy and have the stock shipped to me here in the U.S. I decided to contact some people knowledegable about import regulations concerning this (by the way, our company is a licensed exporter of ITAR items, and we didn't know the answer to this one about wooden WWII 98k Mauser stocks. The reality is different than what the seller said.
"...You need to get an import permit,Form 6 and an IIC from ATF.Depending on the country,you may have to get the IIC (International Import Certificate) legalized by US State Depart and also by the exporting country's Consulate.
You will need to bring the stocks in by air, either air or sea shipments will involve duty,brokers,etc. And be careful calculating your CIF..."
 

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I have been shipping things to Norway for years. As of late it seems like there has been a change. (Obama?) One of my shipments was stopped. All the rules I have read indicates to me that the items were import okay. Maybe a new customs official? What I do notice about the rules is that they can interpreted however they want. Like the "Munitions List". No "List" exists. If it falls into the categories they have then it is regulated. This leaves it up to them to decide and whoever is in power can do it whatever way they think. But a stock should be fine.
 

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I got my (4) M39 triggers delivered from Finnland earlier this week quicker than I can get a book delivered from New York...
 

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I have had no problems recieving stocks, magazines, bayo's, helmets or the like from my relatives in Norway, I did lose one inert shell ( 2cm flak ) they state right on the form what it is. Prices are expensive for shipping but it is cheaper than dealer prices here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Guys,
The company I am VP of is a licensed exporter of ITAR controlled items. We know something about the regulations. I deal daily with export issues of ITAR related items, in our case, we manufacture firearms, suppressors and night vision devices. (Military stocks and parts are ITAR related items) What I didn't know was the particulars of importing wooden military stocks for K98k rifles. I inquired. I posted the response I received, and I will continue to seek further clarification from 2 more sources this week.
Let me share with you my knowledge and years of experience on this topic of ITAR controlled items:
1. You have U.S. State Department regulations that you MUST comply with,
2. You have BATF regulations you MUST comply with, and
3. You MIGHT have U.S. Commerce Department regulations that you have to comply with.
4. You also have U.S. Customs which might have their own interpretation!

If any item you received is under the above jurisdictions and just because you received things shipped to you without getting clobbered when you received it doesn't mean you are in the clear, it just means you were lucky, MAYBE.
It is your responsibility to check with EACH of the above agencies to find out what regulations pertain to this activity.
NOTE: (I am certain about this) Just because a govt. official from one agency tells you can do something, that doesn't mean that info carries to the other agencies. EACH govt. agency is a separate entity, and EACH agency regs must be met. Sometimes these regs are contradictatory!
NOTE: (I am certain about this) Just because you are told something is acceptable by one agent of that agency, that doesn't mean that that information is accurate!! GET THE determination in writing! And make sure that whatever you get in writing is the latest determination! And then, that still does not get you off the hook if some prosecuting attorney says he is going to make a trial case out of it! There are plenty of US State Department "ok's" that people and major companies received in writing, and then got very heavy fines on from US Commerce Department. (Example: Daisy BB guns, day scopes)
In this case, it seems that US State Department ITAR regs take prescidence, with deferment to BATF for application approval (Form 6) importation of parts. Anyone saying anything to the contrary MUST have something in writing from BATF saying that BATF does not hold "importation of wooden surplus Mauser stocks" to be under regulations of BATF or ITAR.
To do otherwise is to be setting yourselves up for some very unpleaseant surprises one day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I like rebuilding sportorized K98k's... am looking for some nice K98k stocks of all types. I say I will need about (5) of each type. I have some of the old Boyd's K98k stocks and handguards that I stashed away here years ago. I was thinking of re-building some decent Turkish stocks to K98k configuation (not as easy as you might think). Any suggestions?
 

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I love the fact that it may be harder now to get a stock. Are you trying to scare people into not buying a stock or are you trying to funnel coin into your pocket through your business...if your business imports also?
 

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There might be a big difference between bringing in say one stock versus 100 stocks....................... try to bring in 25 stocks without filing a form 6 and it will get flagged.................... ;) But then thats the difference between a collector looking to restore a rifle versus someone in business not doing the proper paperwok to bring in merchandise.
 

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the FEIGB addresses this question in specific. the ATF does not prohibit the importation of stocks for private use without form 6 if the single package value is less than $100. the ATF allows you to import large quantities for personal use if you file a form 6.
 

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Guys,
The company I am VP of is a licensed exporter of ITAR controlled items. We know something about the regulations. I deal daily with export issues of ITAR related items, in our case, we manufacture firearms, suppressors and night vision devices. (Military stocks and parts are ITAR related items) What I didn't know was the particulars of importing wooden military stocks for K98k rifles. I inquired. I posted the response I received, and I will continue to seek further clarification from 2 more sources this week.
Let me share with you my knowledge and years of experience on this topic of ITAR controlled items:
1. You have U.S. State Department regulations that you MUST comply with,
2. You have BATF regulations you MUST comply with, and
3. You MIGHT have U.S. Commerce Department regulations that you have to comply with.
4. You also have U.S. Customs which might have their own interpretation!

If any item you received is under the above jurisdictions and just because you received things shipped to you without getting clobbered when you received it doesn't mean you are in the clear, it just means you were lucky, MAYBE.
It is your responsibility to check with EACH of the above agencies to find out what regulations pertain to this activity.
NOTE: (I am certain about this) Just because a govt. official from one agency tells you can do something, that doesn't mean that info carries to the other agencies. EACH govt. agency is a separate entity, and EACH agency regs must be met. Sometimes these regs are contradictatory!
NOTE: (I am certain about this) Just because you are told something is acceptable by one agent of that agency, that doesn't mean that that information is accurate!! GET THE determination in writing! And make sure that whatever you get in writing is the latest determination! And then, that still does not get you off the hook if some prosecuting attorney says he is going to make a trial case out of it! There are plenty of US State Department "ok's" that people and major companies received in writing, and then got very heavy fines on from US Commerce Department. (Example: Daisy BB guns, day scopes)
In this case, it seems that US State Department ITAR regs take prescidence, with deferment to BATF for application approval (Form 6) importation of parts. Anyone saying anything to the contrary MUST have something in writing from BATF saying that BATF does not hold "importation of wooden surplus Mauser stocks" to be under regulations of BATF or ITAR.
To do otherwise is to be setting yourselves up for some very unpleaseant surprises one day.
Absolutely right to go by the book even though it is just a piece of shaped wood. I wonder if they have the same requirements of a table leg or lamp base. Absolute stupidity either way on the part of the 'authorities'.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Guys,
This is simply a hobby for me. (I used to collect MP40's) there is no intention for me to make any money at this. For from it.
And, I am not trying to scare people.
Nor am I trying to funnel any money onto the business I work for (truth is... they look down their noses at anything not high-end and under 1/2 minute of angle!) and in any case they would not want anything to do with importing such a small order under tens of thousands of dollars.
I have been in the gun business since 1972. I have seen or heard about quite a few guys getting into trouble with the firearms laws over the years.
I am looking for some K98k stocks... thought I might be able to explore getting some for my personal collection. PERIOD. In the process of looking at getting the stocks from overseas I recieved some input from an attorney who deals strictly with fiirearms laws and import/export. I wanted to share the information with fellow collectors on this forum, as I get a lot o enjoyment from reading this forum daily.
My input was of the best of intentions, as I saw something going on that might cause some problems if the proper paperwork is not in order,
As for the price of the stocks... every stock I was looking at was over $200 each.
 

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Rich I guess at this point it is up to you on whether to purchase the stocks then. I know if I needed a stock I would go my normal route with Mario in the Netherlands. Not one time did I have an issue.

Do you know if companies such as Samco have to jump through hoops with the paperwork for the stocks that they get in? I am thinking that they get post war stocks along with complete rifles when they order.
 

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Ask Mario from Norway how many problems he has. Probably none. I've parted out over many K98 rifles and probably half the stocks went over seas with only ONE problem. I had one stock sent back to me from Denmark because they were too stupid to realize it wasn't a gun but just the stock. They had a letter glued to the box stating I was in violation of some French law blah blah blah that I had sent a gun to Denmark when it clearly wasn't one. I guess they just xrayed the box. Again, stocks do not have to go through an importer, it does not help the gun in anyway or form shoot.
 

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I got screwed by Bergflak from Norway .
Never once had an issue with Reidar in over 10 years dealing. VERY honest guy IMHO.

Mario is from the Netherlands, not Norway incidentally. I have ANOTHER set coming from him very soon.

If you are worried on the import duty $100 limit, just ask Mario or whoever to declare the value under $100. Pretty simple really - they will ALL do it.



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I have to echo what everyone else has said.
I have purchased (2) stocks from The Netherlands(mario) ,both @ a value of over 220.00 and have had absolutley no problems ,and the first one was opened and inspected by Customs,resealed and sent on.
I did however get a scope from Germany which had a cost of 300.00 listed and customs gigged me for 70 bucks....

I wouldnt sweat the stocks....
 
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