[Bayonetcollector]

Another Nice piece from the lot I picked up yesterday. this Shield has been repainted by the previous owner but is all there and original. I was pretty happy to get this, they are darn Heavy to carry home from France, so finding one here is a great feeling....

This Shield has been there, no doubt...

What caused this extra hole I don't know. Was it deliberately made as a peephole? Or did something punch through it? I have no idea, but the edges are pretty jagged... Entrance/exit wound, or an extra peephole? What say you?

I'm pretty happy With this lot, and there is much more... :thumbsup:

 

[mikesm44]

Woah that is cool. The hole certainly doesn't look "stock" but the placement almost seems like it is on purpose. Maybe for a spotter? Would have to be some nice sized piece of shrapnel otherwise I would think. Very curious to see what others have to say.


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[Bayonetcollector]

I really can't tell about that extra hole. It could indeed be purpose made. But, I cannot imagine what Method was used to make the hole? It is thick, strong steel. I am wondering whether the hole could actually have been the result of a large splinter of a Shell With sufficient force to break through? The hole is quite jagged. The edge on the rear of it is bent into the hole towards the outside along one side of the hole. The hole is larger on the outside and some steel, opposite to that bent edge, is bent outwards also. Most of the surfaces in the hole, on the front of the Shield, look to be broken off, Sharp edges. It simply cannot be the work of a Welding torch or something like that, it looks as if pieces of layers of steel have been broken off. Now, what tool could do that? so, my theory is that something punched through With Sharp and strong force. If so it must have been quite a blast and very Close, to be able to punch through armoured steel. I suppose those turned .303 bullets would be way too weak... so, lacking a better theory I believe that something very hard came along With sufficient mass and speed to punch through. Do correct me, do come up With other ideas, it is just so that right now I cannot see any other answer.

 

[JPS]

Hello BC,

Great find Bud! NICE!!!

Regarding the "extra hole" can you possibly take a clear close up of this photo using the "macro" setting?

With clear enough detail it should be possible to tell if the edges indicate whether or not the metal was fractured or possibly flame cut to create the hole with a torch.

A very nice example Bud. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Warmest regards,

John

 

[mikesm44]

I really can't tell about that extra hole. It could indeed be purpose made. But, I cannot imagine what Method was used to make the hole? It is thick, strong steel. I am wondering whether the hole could actually have been the result of a large splinter of a Shell With sufficient force to break through? The hole is quite jagged. The edge on the rear of it is bent into the hole towards the outside along one side of the hole. The hole is larger on the outside and some steel, opposite to that bent edge, is bent outwards also. Most of the surfaces in the hole, on the front of the Shield, look to be broken off, Sharp edges. It simply cannot be the work of a Welding torch or something like that, it looks as if pieces of layers of steel have been broken off. Now, what tool could do that? so, my theory is that something punched through With Sharp and strong force. If so it must have been quite a blast and very Close, to be able to punch through armoured steel. I suppose those turned .303 bullets would be way too weak... so, lacking a better theory I believe that something very hard came along With sufficient mass and speed to punch through. Do correct me, do come up With other ideas, it is just so that right now I cannot see any other answer.

I would tend to agree with you but it just seems so "slitted" and purposeful. The fact that it has jagged edges is interesting. Do you think the soldiers bent the material out of the hole like that to clean it up or does it look like the force of the impact caused that? I could easily see a shell fired at a high altitude falling almost vertical into a trench, maybe directly behind the shield and sending something through it. Looking at it again however it sure does look like the place and way to put a peep hole. Haha. I don't know. Again curious to see what others might say. Someone has to have seen other examples of these things with damage.

 

[Big commander]

Well, the problem is always the same ... we do not know! We can imagine, we can dream, we can enhance a story we even don't know for sure.
Dear BC, enjoy the the new item in your collection ... I know neither me or my friends ever shot a armor piercing bullet through that steel ... it was not us! Of course we had a shot at such things in our youth ... but this is certainly not one of the many

 

[mikesm44]

That is true Big commander, but if it is some kind of field expedient tactic one could expect to see other examples of it. If there are other examples then I'd be inclined to say peep hole, but otherwise I'm inclined to say damage. Of course it could be a "one of a kind" alteration to the shield. So you are right, it is possible we may never know, but it is also possible the answer may lie elsewhere than just looking at this one piece.

 

[Bayonetcollector]

Hello BC,

Great find Bud! NICE!!!

Regarding the "extra hole" can you possibly take a clear close up of this photo using the "macro" setting?

View attachment 765739

With clear enough detail it should be possible to tell if the edges indicate whether or not the metal was fractured or possibly flame cut to create the hole with a torch.

A very nice example Bud. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Warmest regards,

John

I will post a clear macro photo of it. I took good pictures of it this morning, but did not have time to upload before work. Now I will not be home until tomorrow evening, but I will post it then. It is great to have such expertise here. I'm really looking forwards to finding out what this hole is. As mikesm44 has stated the location of the hole looks as if it may be made on purpose, but to me the edges of the hole look as if something burst throught it. It will be rather interesting if it turns out to actually have been penetrated by something, imagine the force involved in such an event...

 

[JPS]

Thank you BC,

No rush Bud unless you think the shield is going to somehow end up in Gsu's collection between now and the end of the day?

Take your time.

Warmest regards,

John

 

[Bayonetcollector]

Thank you BC,

No rush Bud unless you think the shield is going to somehow end up in Gsu's collection between now and the end of the day?

Take your time.

Warmest regards,

John

You never know with Gus, John... A few months back he said he'd fire up the truck. If he got it started it could be here any day now...

 

[RIR120]

I'd be in favor of the "cleaned-up shrapnel hole" theory...seems most logical. I have to ask about the overall condition. This doesn't look at all like the usual bunker and battlefield finds you see with heavy pitting. I was fortunate enough years ago to have gotten one that obviously came out of a bunker or some other reasonably well protected location. It has hardly any pitting on the shield itself which I believe may have been galvanized or otherwise plated with a protective coating. It retains about 75% of its original FG paint. The support leg, however, clearly wasn't galvanized and it's heavily pitted. Regardless, new paint or not it appears you have an outstanding example!

 

[John Sukey In Memoriam]

One reason the Brits went to Express rifles to get to the sniper. While the plate could stop a .303, something like a rifle designed to stop an elephant or rhino would penetrate easily

 

[Bayonetcollector]

How is this?

 

[DK PHILLIPS]

RIR....thats what i feel happen..
clean it up usethe hole....

 

[JPS]

Hi BC,

Thanks Bud! But it's too dark and too blurry. With 38+ years in metals related industries it is generally possible with clear enough close-ups to tell with reasonable certainty whether or not metal has been fractured or melted. None of the photos so far are clean enough to evaluate.

Hopefully you can get a shot with the macro setting on your camera that is generally indicated with a small "tulip" icon.

Either way, it's a real beauty! Great find!!!

Warmest regards,

John

 

[Bayonetcollector]

Will these do, John? I have a strong feeling that this is not melted, but fractured...

 

[Gustaf B]

It looks like evidence of spalling to me, the king of result you only get with a blow strong enough to crystallize the metal and allow it to fracture.

 

[Bayonetcollector]

I think so too Gus, a hard, Sharp, blow... I suppose it will have come from behind the Shield. (The Pictures show the front). To me it makes this Shield more fascinating. No doubt, it has been there...

 

[Gustaf B]

A high explosive shell burst could happen on either side of the shield, I doubt it could have been caused by a shrapnel shell.

 

[JPS]

BINGO!

Sure looks like it was fractured from the backside by a piece of heavy caliber shell casing. The velocity would have had to be pretty high to leave little evidence of bending or stretching of the metal before the missing chunk gave way. Or, this may also point to this particular section of the plate or perhaps the entire plate being somewhat brittle, which is not particularly unusual with cast iron versus rolled plate.

I vote for shrapnel from a large caliber shell. This would also explain the strike on the backside of the plate. Of course when it was damaged, it may have been already knocked over on the face of the plate with the rear facing upward towards the sky? Impossible to tell how it was sitting after all of these years.

Nice! .. Nice!! ... Nice!!!

Warmest regards,

John