http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=161977
Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
1439 Posts
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 6:54:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I keep teasing that I'm working on this particular aspect of the Oberndorf Swedes, I guess I should put up or shut up. I don't know all there is to know about this topic so you all can feel free to add your 2 cents. We're all going to learn as we go on this one.
Henceforth and forevermore there will be 2 tiers of Oberndorf Swedes. Those with 100% German parts and those that are 100% Swedish issue, i.e. rebuilds and/or replacement parts. Naturally, the 100% German-made Oberndorf rifles and carbines will be worth more as it relates to originality. Those that are rebuilds are still 100% Swedish issue and correct, but there is a difference and that difference will manifest as $$$$$$$.
When it comes to identifying German versus Swedish stocks on the 1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedes we've already done the homework:
http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/german.html The 1895 carbines will be marked similarly.
The metal parts -- that's a different story that's still unfolding.
You'll notice that strange font stamp. Its German in origin. The Swede bolts don't have it. This is from 1895 carbine s/n 8044.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426183946_f8044.jpg
Download Attachment:
19.74 KB
This is the bolt from 1895 Oberndorf carbine s/n 11959. It has the same stamp on the backside of the root of the bolt handle.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184057_i11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
18.78 KB
What the heck is this? s/n 11959.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184519_j11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
25.28 KB
From s/n 9865 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Huh? Yep, that's a 2 stamp turned upside down to make a 5. Once might be a mistake, but both these carbines are so marked.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184436_j9865.jpg
Download Attachment:
22.5 KB
See that crown/M stamp on the magazine release button? All German screw heads are thusly stamped. The Swedish are not.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184725_q11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
23.91 KB
Ejector box screw on s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184956_d6407.jpg
Download Attachment:
17.14 KB
Guard screw from s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426185129_h6407.jpg
Download Attachment:
26.62 KB
There are other areas and parts that can be identified specifically as German on the Oberndorf Swedes. I'll save those for the pending webpage.
Feel free to add photos to this thread as long as they pertain to German-made parts identification on 1895-1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedish Mausers.
Dutchman
foudufoot
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 10:51:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Dutch!! Very nice thread. I'll go back and check my 1899 tomorrow for some of these markings, although I suspect that Mauser may have stopped stamping some of these after 1895. I do not recall seeing the M stamp on the bolt when I cleaned it.
mauserdoc
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 01:35:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed thanks! I don't have the energy to take guns appart tonight, but have looked at the 4 obies I have in the lockup here. I don't see any "m's" on the floor plate, release, or bolt. Will take these 4 appart and have a look at the stocks; This is very interesting stuff and certainly creates a new niche of collecting. There are obies and then, there are obies... Have 2 other all matching ones stored elsewhere--will have to see what they look like--it is not good enough now to just have an obie with a crown--apparently need to "M" as well to say that it is all german?
Swedeman
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foudufoot / MD brought up a point ... are we specifically talking about 1895 M94 carbines having the "M" stamp on the bolts (and other small parts for that matter)? Do we have any definitive evidence that they also stamped the bolts on the 1899 and 1900 M96 Mauser Oberndorfs, too?
What are the differences between stampings on M94's vs. M96's?
jebber
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:33:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting. Hopefully you get a lot of data & feedback. I'll have to figure out where my MO Swedes are & take some pics.
USMCsean
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 4:38:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very interesting, but I noticed something very minor. How can that be an upside down 2? If it was upside down, it would look like a reverse 5, and to me, it doesn't.
Dutchman
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 5:43:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. See what I mean?
foudufoot
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 10:13:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I checked the bolt on my 1899 OB. It has the same marking as your 1895. The extractor is also stamped with as small Mauser crown.
Nyloc
Posted - 04/29/2006 : 11:45:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This thread got me all intrigued. So i dismantled mine and I can confirm there is another 1899 M96 with an M stamped at the rear of the stock by the rear screw hole. Interestingly the fonts are different in the stamps on the wood and the receiver. I also found the following symbol on the outside rear of the magazine, with what is similar to an M but slightly different. The obvious non-german parts on mine ;( are the mag follower, barrel, sprung retainer on the rear band and the screws if no marking at all=non-german.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/nyloc/2006429234347_DSCF1104.jpg
Download Attachment:
74.05 KB
highestangel
Posted - 05/06/2006 : 3:11:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So far I found no "M" stamps on my M96, 1900 Oberndorf. However, I haven't disassembled the bolt, yet. Thanks for this bit of info, that's great work Dutch. Michael
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 10:17:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just found this post, my 1900 Oberndorf Swede m96 has its original german stock on it. The gun is over all in good condition, it has seen use for sure, the stock is battered and has a crack repared with a dowel in the grip area. someone replaced the stock disk with a blank(bummer) the metal on this german made rifle is not as shiny and pretty as my CG 96(looks very good) this obie has that been there and done that look. I only paid $100 otd for it so i am very happy the sn is in the 44xxx range. All parts that are numbered Match!! other than it not being a typical swede supermodel M96 i am very happy with it.
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 11:56:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you come to the conclusion that the receiver was replaced? the serial does fall it to the above mentioned range "19,000/60,000 range" there is a CG in front of the SN on the receiver. The stock according to the information above does tie into a german gun, which matches the serial numbers on the rceiver and other parts. All of the parts on the rifle do have the typical last 3 numbers of the serial on it.
swede
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:16:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mistake , I thought I read 44xx .
By the way , that would be O.G. in front of the serial number . Olaf Gibson was the inspector at the Carl Gustaf factory from 1898/1902 .
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:24:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whew, i thought i had a bastard child in the lot!! thanks for the clarification swede.
Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
1439 Posts
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 6:54:36 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I keep teasing that I'm working on this particular aspect of the Oberndorf Swedes, I guess I should put up or shut up. I don't know all there is to know about this topic so you all can feel free to add your 2 cents. We're all going to learn as we go on this one.
Henceforth and forevermore there will be 2 tiers of Oberndorf Swedes. Those with 100% German parts and those that are 100% Swedish issue, i.e. rebuilds and/or replacement parts. Naturally, the 100% German-made Oberndorf rifles and carbines will be worth more as it relates to originality. Those that are rebuilds are still 100% Swedish issue and correct, but there is a difference and that difference will manifest as $$$$$$$.
When it comes to identifying German versus Swedish stocks on the 1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedes we've already done the homework:
http://www.rebooty.com/~dutchman/german.html The 1895 carbines will be marked similarly.
The metal parts -- that's a different story that's still unfolding.
You'll notice that strange font stamp. Its German in origin. The Swede bolts don't have it. This is from 1895 carbine s/n 8044.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426183946_f8044.jpg
Download Attachment:
19.74 KB
This is the bolt from 1895 Oberndorf carbine s/n 11959. It has the same stamp on the backside of the root of the bolt handle.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184057_i11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
18.78 KB
What the heck is this? s/n 11959.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184519_j11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
25.28 KB
From s/n 9865 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Huh? Yep, that's a 2 stamp turned upside down to make a 5. Once might be a mistake, but both these carbines are so marked.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184436_j9865.jpg
Download Attachment:
22.5 KB
See that crown/M stamp on the magazine release button? All German screw heads are thusly stamped. The Swedish are not.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184725_q11959.jpg
Download Attachment:
23.91 KB
Ejector box screw on s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426184956_d6407.jpg
Download Attachment:
17.14 KB
Guard screw from s/n 6407 1895 Oberndorf carbine. Crown/M = German.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/Dutchman/2006426185129_h6407.jpg
Download Attachment:
26.62 KB
There are other areas and parts that can be identified specifically as German on the Oberndorf Swedes. I'll save those for the pending webpage.
Feel free to add photos to this thread as long as they pertain to German-made parts identification on 1895-1899-1900 Oberndorf Swedish Mausers.
Dutchman
foudufoot
Posted - 04/26/2006 : 10:51:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Dutch!! Very nice thread. I'll go back and check my 1899 tomorrow for some of these markings, although I suspect that Mauser may have stopped stamping some of these after 1895. I do not recall seeing the M stamp on the bolt when I cleaned it.
mauserdoc
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 01:35:42 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed thanks! I don't have the energy to take guns appart tonight, but have looked at the 4 obies I have in the lockup here. I don't see any "m's" on the floor plate, release, or bolt. Will take these 4 appart and have a look at the stocks; This is very interesting stuff and certainly creates a new niche of collecting. There are obies and then, there are obies... Have 2 other all matching ones stored elsewhere--will have to see what they look like--it is not good enough now to just have an obie with a crown--apparently need to "M" as well to say that it is all german?
Swedeman
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:07:26 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Foudufoot / MD brought up a point ... are we specifically talking about 1895 M94 carbines having the "M" stamp on the bolts (and other small parts for that matter)? Do we have any definitive evidence that they also stamped the bolts on the 1899 and 1900 M96 Mauser Oberndorfs, too?
What are the differences between stampings on M94's vs. M96's?
jebber
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 08:33:12 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting. Hopefully you get a lot of data & feedback. I'll have to figure out where my MO Swedes are & take some pics.
USMCsean
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 4:38:41 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is very interesting, but I noticed something very minor. How can that be an upside down 2? If it was upside down, it would look like a reverse 5, and to me, it doesn't.
Dutchman
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 5:43:02 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good point. See what I mean?
foudufoot
Posted - 04/27/2006 : 10:13:57 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I checked the bolt on my 1899 OB. It has the same marking as your 1895. The extractor is also stamped with as small Mauser crown.
Nyloc
Posted - 04/29/2006 : 11:45:27 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This thread got me all intrigued. So i dismantled mine and I can confirm there is another 1899 M96 with an M stamped at the rear of the stock by the rear screw hole. Interestingly the fonts are different in the stamps on the wood and the receiver. I also found the following symbol on the outside rear of the magazine, with what is similar to an M but slightly different. The obvious non-german parts on mine ;( are the mag follower, barrel, sprung retainer on the rear band and the screws if no marking at all=non-german.
http://old.gunboards.com/uploaded/nyloc/2006429234347_DSCF1104.jpg
Download Attachment:
74.05 KB
highestangel
Posted - 05/06/2006 : 3:11:46 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So far I found no "M" stamps on my M96, 1900 Oberndorf. However, I haven't disassembled the bolt, yet. Thanks for this bit of info, that's great work Dutch. Michael
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 10:17:54 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just found this post, my 1900 Oberndorf Swede m96 has its original german stock on it. The gun is over all in good condition, it has seen use for sure, the stock is battered and has a crack repared with a dowel in the grip area. someone replaced the stock disk with a blank(bummer) the metal on this german made rifle is not as shiny and pretty as my CG 96(looks very good) this obie has that been there and done that look. I only paid $100 otd for it so i am very happy the sn is in the 44xxx range. All parts that are numbered Match!! other than it not being a typical swede supermodel M96 i am very happy with it.
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 11:56:59 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How did you come to the conclusion that the receiver was replaced? the serial does fall it to the above mentioned range "19,000/60,000 range" there is a CG in front of the SN on the receiver. The stock according to the information above does tie into a german gun, which matches the serial numbers on the rceiver and other parts. All of the parts on the rifle do have the typical last 3 numbers of the serial on it.
swede
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:16:43 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My mistake , I thought I read 44xx .
By the way , that would be O.G. in front of the serial number . Olaf Gibson was the inspector at the Carl Gustaf factory from 1898/1902 .
milsurphunter
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 12:24:26 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whew, i thought i had a bastard child in the lot!! thanks for the clarification swede.
