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Almost Hurricane season again. If not the Hurricanes then Blizzards and sometimes just for your regular power failures like when some speeding jackass takes out a power pole and I use mine when camping too. So, here again for everyone is what to do with a gasoline powered generator from the time you take it out of the box until the time you need it.
1. First, read the manual. Understand it or get someone to explain it to you who does.
2. Most do not come with oil or they come with "break-in oil". Before you do anything else put in oil, usually 30 weight or the break-in oil. Check your manual.
3. The generator should be test-run and broken-in before you need it. To do this, put in about a half gallon of 87 octane gas with a fuel stabilizer added (or just enough to run the generator for an hour)and run the generator for about half an hour without a load (nothing plugged in) then another half hour with just a lamp to make sure there is actually power being produced. Move the lamp to each outlet on the generator to make sure each outlet is being powered. Let the generator run until it shuts down from running out of gas (but, it does need to run about an hour). By letting it run out of gas you are coating the fuel system with the stabilizer which protects it from corrosion.
4. After the break-in, drain any remaining gas and change the oil. Do this whether you used "break-in oil" or regular oil because the break-in will leave the oil in the generator very dirty.
5. Do not store the generator with gas in it.
6. Always use a fuel stabilizer in the gas you use in the generator.
7. Always use extension cords that have enough capacity for the load you are drawing. Remember, every extension cord you add degrades the voltage between the generator and whatever appliance you are running and is a trip and fall hazard as well as a fire hazard.
8. Never run the generator inside. Several families have died after the hurricanes and blizzards because of carbon monoxide poisoning due to running generators inside.
9. When you are done using the generator, if possible, let the generator shut itself off by running out of gas so that you don't leave fuel in the line because that will degrade the fuel line. You might still have to detach one end of the fuel line to let some fuel run into a gas can so as to completely drain the tank and line then drop the little bowl under the tank (and before the fuel line) and make sure that is empty, dry and clean since old gas leaves a residue (dries like varnish) that could break up and clog your carburetor the next time you try to run the generator.
10. Check the oil and change if necessary, add more if necessary.
11. For storage, you can remove the sparkplug(s) wipe them off then spray a straight silicone lubricant into the sparkplug hole and replace the spark plug, spray silicone into the plug end of the spark plug wire too as this prevents corrosion in the spark chamber, and promotes good conductivity. Silicone sprayed through the spark plug hole will coat the cylinder (to make sure of a good coating, without fuel and without actually starting the generator you'll want to pull the starter cord to fully cycle the cylinder at least once) and prevent the cylinder from rusting solid during long term storage. I have found that it will then take a couple of pulls to start the generator the first time out of storage since it has to blow out or burn off the silicone but this is better than having a rusty or frozen cylinder. After that, my generator goes back to starting on the first pull. Additionally, prior to storage, if your generator has a mobility kit, (wheels) make sure they have air if they are that type and you may want to add some “Slime” or other brand name of the puncture sealing goo that is widely available. It sucks having to move a 200 pound generator with a flat tire! If you have spilled gas on the generator's plastic fuel tank when filling it, clean that off as it will eventually make the area where it spilled brittle. If your generator has one of those little plastic fuel filters on the fuel line you might want to change that for an automotive type replaceable glass filter just because they are better and buy an extra spark plug and if your generator uses an oil filter or air filter buy a couple of them extra as well. Your generator will now be ready for storage and will be ready for the next time you need it.
Finally, when I’m using the generator I keep the gas cans away from the generator and will make sure there is a fire extinguisher close by that can put out both electrical and gasoline fires (heavy duty B and C rated at least). Thanks moderators for making this a sticky. One more thing that will save either your generator or your house after the storm is make sure that your generator is properly grounded. Wired directly to the house ground is best but that was too far away from where I have to place my generator when I'm running it, so, I drove a length of rebar about 5 feet into the ground with only a few inches sticking out and I attached a length of AWG10 ground wire between the grounding nut on the generator cradle and, when in use, the other end wrapped around the rebar. The rebar is next to a wall where no one will trip over it. Regards... Alan K.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
bucktales
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
608 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2005 : 8:50:14 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Funny, I just had my electrician over today. He put in a six circuit sub-panel with three way breakers for generator operation.He ran a feed to the outside with a twist lock connector for the generator.I now have seperate circuits for my deep freeze in my basement,my fridge and my boiler (baseboard hot water,don't want that to freeze.)Those circuits are the most important to me. Been wanting to do that for a while.
We tested it all today and I'm good to go.
bucktales
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Michael Jon Littman
Gunboards Moderator And Polka Band Leader

USA
4378 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2005 : 10:17:06 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
In "normal" emergencies a generator is ok. In the case of your house being damaged in a storm, tornado, etc I do not see the value of one. To be honest I think the NG/LPG or diesel stand by generators have MUCH more value even thought they may cost ten or more times the price of a mobile unit. Alan and I have had this debate for years. After a hurricane comes through a column of hot, humid days follow. These days are crucial to secure your home from further damage due to rain. Assuming your home has a water-tight roof THE most useful appliance after the storms was an AC. When Andrew hit, 13 years ago, I was in MUCH better physical condition than I am today. Even then I had to take "breathers" where I sat in an AC'ed car to regain my composure. Sleeping at night was unbearable. Fans did not really make matters THAT much better. I want a generator than can power my central A/C unit!
On another note I reckon it should be brought up that using a generator produces a whole other discussion about how to secure it and its gas tanks from theft.
Edited by - Michael Jon Littman on 05/22/2005 10:18:18 AM
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 05/22/2005 : 2:30:10 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Stand-by generator attached to the house or portable generator? If your house is destroyed it doesn't do any good to have a stand-by generator. If my house is destroyed but your house is still standing but you don't have electricity, I can take my portable generator to your house. There are portables that are powerful enough to run the central AC on any house and I can at least run a room unit or two with the smaller generator that I have. As for security, starting simple, 1. use the generator in your fenced yard 2. chain the generator to something substantial with a chain or cable that can't be cut with bolt cutters 3. Radio Shack offers something called a circuit interuption warning device. sort of like what hospitals use to make sure equipment is working. One end plugs into the generator the other you put in the house. If the generator stops because it is out of gas or because someone has turned it off so they could steal it the circuit is interupted and an alarm is going to sound that will wake you up from the soundest sleep guaranteed. There was a big discussion about security, generators and looters after last years hurricanes if anyone wants to read it. Go to Michael's modern handguns and find the topic "Sig-Sauer -vs- looters." I think it was from October of 2004. Regards... Alan K.
Edited by - ElmerJFudd on 05/24/2005 12:18:13 AM
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Chukmak
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
703 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2005 : 6:08:49 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Leave tank empty? Not mine. Condensation will rust out your tank. Better to leave it full and use it (exercise) the gen set on a regular basis. Sea Foam in the gas works great.
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those who don't...
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Silicon Wolverine
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

2125 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2005 : 7:28:02 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
I like those LPG drien gennies that you tee in to your home LPG supply. Where we live evyone has thier own tank and a 2KW gen would run a LONG time on 250 gals of propane.

SW
Better to have it and not need it,
Than need it and not have it.

Live free, Die well. -the scorpion king

If you want peace, Prepare for war.

If you can read this- thank a teacher.
If you can read this in english- thank a vet.
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2005 : 11:12:14 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote

quote:Originally posted by Chukmak

Leave tank empty? Not mine. Condensation will rust out your tank. Better to leave it full and use it (exercise) the gen set on a regular basis. Sea Foam in the gas works great.



Yeah, if you have a metal fuel tank on your generator you should leave it full to prevent condensation and rust. Most newer generators except the ones made in China have plastic fuel tanks. I use CRC marine fuel stabilizer, a 16 ounce bottle treats up to 80 gallons of gas. I exercise my generator by running it about half an hour every 2 or 3 months. Regards... Alan K.
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2005 : 08:41:00 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
I have a few suggestions also. Use a simple and high quality, powerful portable generator. I prefer diesel fuel, with gasoline a close second. Diesel generators will run off of anything including filtered diluted used motor oil. Also diesel fuel stores for about 5 years with a stabilizer added. Also it is a good idea to have a 220V hook up extension cord fabricated (needed to run 220V appliances) Here are my reasons:

1) Portable, because you may not be at home when you need it, what if you have to evacuate to a friends/familys house? Also it stores in a safe dry place.
2) Powerful, because you will want to run something that uses large amounts of power, like a hot water heater, washing machine or stove/oven, airconditioner.
3) Simple, generators are hard working devices and as such they tend to break, also while sitting for years, things happen. Mine broke twice during the 2 hurricanes. Simple means everything is accessed easily, without having to remove side panels. Carburetor comes off without other disassembly. Simple also means you can often visually determine if everyting is intact with the engine.
4) Quality, Coleman, Homelite and a bunch of others use Plastic alternator ends with the ball bearing moulded into the plastic. What do you think happens to the plastic when the bearing gets hot? The more metal, the better when it comes to generator heads!
5) Diesel or Gas only. This is due to both availablity of fuel and energy content of fuel. Propane generators use about 2.4 gallons of liquid propane for each equiv gallon of diesel. That means you must have a totally full 250 gallon propane tank (about 200 acutal liquid) to equal 90 gallons of diesel. Propane is not portable, small propane tanks will NOT run a large gererator at high output, the propane gets cold and will not come out of the tank fast enough!

I ran my entire house with an 11HP Robin generator. I was not able to run the central air, but I could run 2 window units, and my house was nice and cool! I do have a very efficient house BTW.

Quite simply, I like the portable, commercial "construction site" quality units made by Honda, Yamaha, Generac, Robin, and a Northern Tool. I do not like the enclosed Camper style "ultra quiet" units. Try fixing one of those in a bind and you will agree.





Chris
M44 w/laminated stock
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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2213 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2005 : 1:58:27 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
You have a point as far as buying quality goes. Like a defensive handgun, buying a generator is not a time to be cheap. The units with the Japanese engines are first rate. I especially like the ones with the Robin (Subaru)engines, but the Japanese units are very expensive and while you'll get the reliability, you get less power producing capacity for the same money. I prefer Generac generators. They make them for many other companies such as Craftsman, Homelite, Coleman and Troy Bilt. It was suggested to me that when making generators for other companies the same quality components are not used because the other company's specs might call for lower grade wireing (just for example)to lower the cost of production and thus be able to sell the units a little cheaper. I don't know if it is true or not but my generator just happens to be an actual Generac badged unit (Power Boss 5500 storm plus)as opposed to a supposedly identical unit under a different name. I was very lucky to get this unit when I did. Lowes currently sells Generac generators under the Troy-Bilt name. When I'd been shopping generators for awhile and still longing for one but not having the money I went into Lowes to kill some time. This was 2 years ago when Lowes had just transitioned from selling Generac to Troy-Bilt and the Troy-Bilt was around $700.00 it's even more now. Being a hunter and scrounge by nature I spied that one single oil stained box of a different color, way up on the top tier of the storage rack and finding a salesman, I asked, "how much is that one?" It took half an hour to get the forklift over to get it down. It took another half hour to find out the price, $250.00. Since this was identical to the $700.00 Troy-Bilt (except it's black and the Troy-Bilts are red) it took me half a second to say I'll take it. The forklift operator said he would have taken it if he'd known it was up there and three other Lowes employees nodded in agreement. The oil staining on the box was due to the quart of oil it comes with having leaked out. I pointed out that it says on the box that it comes with a quart of oil so they gave me one off the shelf. I'm still giggling like a school girl when I think about that deal. Regards... Alan K.
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Sajer
Gunboards Super Premium Member

318 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2005 : 6:35:05 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Would anyone like to comment on startup? While a 4000 watt generator can do many things that initial startup load can confuse people.
"Fire can be our servant,whether it's toasting s'mores or raining down on charlie"
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 05/28/2005 : 7:31:18 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
The start-up or surge load is the maximum amount of power that a generator can provide for a short time in order to start certain appliances. It does not mean how much power the generator can provide when you first start the generator. Your refrigerator, central airconditioner, freezer and other appliances need a lot of power to get started but once they are running they cycle back and don't use as much. It may take 10,000 watts to start the motor on a central airconditioning unit but then only take 1,200 or so watts to keep it going. So, if you want to run your central air with your generator you have to get a generator that has a starting or surge capacity of 10,000 watts. Most of us who have generators have smaller units (mine is 5500 watts 8500 surge)that will not run our central air because they don't have a high enough surge capacity to start the central air, but, we can run a single room unit or two along with the fridge and some lights and that makes a big difference when the power goes out for days at a time. The higher capacity units are more money and they are big and heavy. The smaller units are generally a compromise based on how much you want to spend and how much space you want it taking up in the garage or the shed when you're not useing it. Hope that helped. Regards... Alan K.
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Chukmak
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
703 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2005 : 10:50:34 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
I have a 20HP Honda genset on wheels. I installed a w/200 amp transfer switch on my incoming service. The Honda has a metal tank, so I don't leave it empty. When the barn fell down (long before I bought the place) it left a concrete cistern standing. I have cut through the wall of the cistern and installed double metal doors, rafters and roof, burried 2" conduit to the house. A small exhaust fan cools the gen room and runs when the gen set is running. A trickle charger keeps the battery fresh, the exhaust goes thru a flex pipe to the outside. A 265 Gallon tank close by provides fuel for cars, dirt bikes, boats, mowers and gen set. I go through enough gas to keep it fresh. Extra oil and filters are stored in the Gen room. I can run everything in the house, just not at the same time. I have my own well for water and a private sewage system (septic tank). I pitty youse guys who live in large metro areas or higly populated states. When the feces hits the rotary cooling device, I don't want to be near lots of people. I was born and raised in south FL and loved it. I moved out 23 years ago because it was getting too crowded (with yam dankees)., Now I live in the boonies and love it...
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those who don't...
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2005 : 4:01:30 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Chukmak, you have the setup that I long for. Economics and family obligations are holding me back for now. I'm doing the best I can with what I have and I hope that's enough. I hope we all make it through this hurricane season without too much difficulty but unfortunately, that's not the way the predictions are calling it. When you and I are under power and have food and water our unprepared neighbors will resent us and they concern me more than the size of my generator. Regards... Alan K.
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2005 : 07:16:05 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Chukman, that is a serious setup! I like it, expecially the bunker for the generator.

I forgot to mention that engine quality is something to look for also. Honda engines are the quality standard. Yamaha and Robin also make quallity engines. Briggs and Tecumseh engines failed at an alarming rate during the hurricanes here in Florida. The repair of a broken connecting rod is not a simple affair and it seems that was a typical failure among the heavily used Briggs and Tecumseh powered gensets. While Generac is owned by Briggs, they have a few models that use a Generac designed engine and they seem to hold up well. Gasoline generator engines call for 50 hour oil change intervals, that is every 2 DAYS! My 11hp Robin used 15 gallons a day. Over the 3 week period of no power I used over 300 gallons of gas. I had only stored 90 gallons, so it became a daily search and wait affair. BTW, we got hit twice, with my total gas use being over 500 gallons!

Once again, the Disel shines here. A typical Yanmar 10hp air cooled generator engine will last 4000 hours. It also requires far less frequent oil changes! A big plus when you run 24/7. The specs call for 200 hour oil change intervals. Diesel efficiency means 23 hours run time with the 8 gallon tank.

BTW a key to determining engine quality is on the EPA sticker. Engine life is the determining factor behind emissions lifespan (which the EPA rates) A extended, B intermediate or C moderate. For larger engines, A = 1000 hours engine life, B=500, C=250. Most Briggs/Tecumseh are "c", the minimum required by law. Smaller engines (218cc or less, lawn mowers and such) cut those numbers in half for the A, B, C ratings.

hope this helps,

Chris
M44 w/laminated stock
Edited by - cujet on 06/04/2005 07:22:45 AM
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Chukmak
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

USA
703 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2005 : 11:31:15 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Yup diesel is ideal, but this genset was a gift, and I just couldn't see myself refusing it. When not burning wood, I heat my house with fuel oil, so my eye is always open for auctions and such where a diesel genset would be available.
Engine life is greatly enhanced with the diesel, as is the economy of operation as cujet mentioned.
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those who don't...
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/05/2005 : 10:48:09 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Check this out
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/2000GMM.asp?page=2000GMM this is what I'd want if I could afford it. Regards... Alan K.
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tbird
Gunboards Super Premium Member

USA
357 Posts
 

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Posted - 06/09/2005 : 10:38:29 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
From experience I can tell you even the best generators will fail when you need them the most. For some reason the power goes out in my neighborhood all the time. What I do now is have a big generator (min 5,000W continuous output) and a big power inverter in case the generator fails (and they do). But you need to have a battery bank, or make sure your vehicle has a powerful enough alternator to run the inverter.

Another way to go is to build your own generator. HarborFreight sells a 10,000 watt unit for $300 you can mount your own engine or connect it to the PTO on a tractor.
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts
Posted - 06/09/2005 : 11:02:38 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
If one is inclined to build a DIY generator, check out the Utterpower.com website. They like Lister CS powered diesel generators. I have 3 of the engines on order from India. My friend and neighbor has a Lister CS clone DIY setup. It makes up to about 11,000 watts and runs all day at 10,000 watts. It uses a ST gererator head that is very robust. Check out the 2nd link for a great writeup about the DIY lister setup.

http://www.utterpower.com

http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/lister.html

M44 w/laminated stock
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2005 : 02:36:02 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
If I had a rural property instead of my little piece of the suburbs I would be giving serious consideration to alternate sources of power anyway and a generator would not be needed. Hydro-electric plant, solor or wind powered electrical generation. Good read:
Home Wind Power by the United States Department of Energy, published by Garden Way Inc. (1981)
Regards... Alan K.
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JoeyA
Gunboards Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2005 : 2:10:41 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
one thing many forget, though propane is not as portable as gas/diesel, it will last a long time, propane is just a converted gas engine and burning the propane in it, is less ahrsh on the engine than gas...so a good propane setup will last a loong time, assuming it doesn't get blown away....but for Fla & hurricanes and all that gas/diesel is easier to move around(which is a double edged sword)
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keysrat
Gunboards Premium Member

USA
137 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2005 : 4:23:31 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
In my experience....
Many of the large, slab mounted gensets failed during Andrew. They either were drowned out by rain water being blasted into the intake or they overheated as the hurricane force winds literally sucked the cooling air away from the units.
Do not plan on running a unit during the storm. You will be much better off to save it for use in the aftermath.

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and appear stupid, than to open it and remove any doubt."
Edited by - keysrat on 06/10/2005 7:35:07 PM
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2005 : 7:24:32 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote

quote:Originally posted by keysrat

In my experience....
Many of the large, slab mounted gensets failed during Andrew. They either were drowned out by rain water being blasted into the intake or they overheated as the hurricane force winds literly sucked the cooling air away from the units.
Do not plan on running a unit during the storm. You will be much better off to save it for use in the aftermath.

Good point, if you have an automatic transfer switch that activates the generator as soon as the power goes out you are going to want that puppy shut off to save the generator from damage during the storm. Thanks Keysrat. Regards... Alan K.
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:13:33 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Good points! Portable units can be stored properly until ready for use. This prevents the aging process caused by the elements. Thereby ensuring power when needed. Propane will indeed result in longer engine life. Problem is that it takes 2.4 gallons of liquid propane to equal the power (runtime, energy etc) of a gallon of diesel. That means you must store huge amounts of propane and hope you have enough. It also means you have NO portability.

Chris
M44 w/laminated stock
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Dr Zero
Moderator

USA
2694 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 5:02:14 PM Show Profile Visit Dr Zero's Homepage Reply with Quote
I have been looking at the generators and I was thinking about what about more than one.

Instead of one large what about smaller units running different groups of items?

I would not want the central ac but a couple of fans would be great maybe one window unit or a few lamps or small appliances.

Also what about the 2 stroke models? I have heard they run forever and are quieter any experience with these?

www.drzero.org/coa
The Original CETME manual's Free for DL at www.drzero.org/cetme
Along with G3 manual's and now 21 AK and SKS manuals
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 5:54:40 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Doc, I've found that the small units just aren't practical. They are light and quiet and hardly use any gas, but they don't have enough power to run anything more than a lamp, a fan, small power tools etc. What you really want is AC or heat for comfort and to be able to run a fridge to keep your groceries from spoiling and possibly running the hot water heater for the shower when not running the AC or heat. Anything else is a luxury. Using more than one generator would get to be more trouble than it is worth because they all need to be outside (unless you want to take the permanent nap under a cloud of carbon monoxide)but they still have to be monitored for fuel and oil consumption and you don't want twenty extension cords going all over the house. If you buy one of the smaller Honda or Yamaha generators for example, it seems to me that they expect you to find them lacking and that is why they offer the optional cable sets that allow you to tie two like units together to work in conjunction with each other and double your output. Eventually, you will realize that you need more power than the single smaller unit provides. Here's something else to consider, a smaller unit running at full capacity (to power fewer things)is going to wear out sooner than a bigger unit running at say one-half or three-quarters capacity and you will have that extra power if you need it. I really feel that anything less than a 5000 running watt generator is inadequate for household use and bigger (to a point) is better. As for 2 strokes, I'd avoid anything that required pre-mixing your gas and two stroke oil because once mixed you can't use that gas in anything else. It might be ok if you didn't have to pre-mix, you just have to remember to keep a supply of 2-stroke oil on hand at all times. Alan K.
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JoeyA
Gunboards Member

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 5:58:55 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote

quote:Originally posted by Dr Zero

I have been looking at the generators and I was thinking about what about more than one.

Instead of one large what about smaller units running different groups of items?

I would not want the central ac but a couple of fans would be great maybe one window unit or a few lamps or small appliances.

Also what about the 2 stroke models? I have heard they run forever and are quieter any experience with these?


before buying another gen, make a list of what you plan on using, and check the amps, watts ect. because if you just want to run a window rattler, fan or two, adn the ice machine & blender(for those nice ice cold margaritas) One gen may be enough.......Also 95% of the time 4 stroke is alot quieter than 2 stroke, but then again when its dead quiet any genset is loud.
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Dr Zero
Moderator

USA
2694 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 8:00:41 PM Show Profile Visit Dr Zero's Homepage Reply with Quote
The ac would be nice but the problem I run into here is I have 3 electric poles for the property due to the way its all spread out.
The house on one the workshop and well on another and another for the rest.

The water heater is 220 so I dont know if that would make a difference.

What I was looking at is things got bad would relocate to one room to cool with the window unit and fans to circulate air, forgot about the fridge LOL!

The well and shop would be on another the other would just be out of luck unless time was roated between the well.

Thanks for the input it helps to bounce off ideas.

www.drzero.org/coa
The Original CETME manual's Free for DL at www.drzero.org/cetme
Along with G3 manual's and now 21 AK and SKS manuals
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 06/12/2005 : 11:33:52 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Interesting circumstances, Doc. Most generators have a 220/240 outlet that takes a special twist lock plug so you could still, in theory, have hot water. My sugestion would be a large portable generator (such as Generac Ultra source 22500 watt)that could be stored securly out of the weather and brought out as needed. You could get a weather proof transfer switch with multiple circuits to provide power to each of your three locations. It would require running wires from where you mount the transfer switch to each of the remote locations and the ability to cut those locations off from utility power so you are not back feeding the lines. Besides a $2000 dollar generator you are looking at at least another couple thousand to put in the transfer switch and shut off switches. I'm just guessing about the price for the electrical work so you would have to talk to an electrical contractor in your area. Maybe you could have the three utility wires relocated so there is only one and then you would need only the one transfer / cutoff switch. Regards... Alan K.
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/13/2005 : 8:13:55 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Common hot water heaters use 3500 or 4500 watt elements and typically run only 1 element at a time.

Hot water heaters are easy for 5000-5500 watt (10-11HP) generators to run as there is no surge load with a heating element.

Many folks here in Florida simply made an ILLEGAL 220V extension cord and plugged it into the dryer outlet. They would simply turn the main off and power the entire house that way. Once again, necessity is the mother of invention.

I had a generator input with breaker installed, with a main disconnect and a central air disconnect All in the same box. It was very inexpensive, as it is in the same box as the main (on the outside of the house). I think the total cost was a few hundred.

Chris
M44 w/laminated stock
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cujet
Gunboards Member

USA
16 Posts

Posted - 06/22/2005 : 07:55:21 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
FWIW, Local city laws may prohibit you from installing a permanant generator due to noise. A typical problem here in Florida is folks purchase a nice box generator that mounts outside. Then a few months later get an electrician to wire it up. The electrical permit is then denied on the basis that the generator makes more than 60db noise. 60db is down right silent.

Portable is the way to go for emergency use.

Chris
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LMHawk
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Posted - 04/03/2006 : 12:43:41 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
220 v electric water heaters will work on 110 v. It just takes twice as long to recover. (Get hot enough to satisfy thermostat) I install them when 220 isn't available and are used sporadically. I simply up the capacity so there is more hot water available when required.

Bob
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Moe
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USA
530 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2006 : 08:07:31 AM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Does anyone use a PTO driven unit from a tractor?I have a diesel tractor and was wondering if this would be the way to go.
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 04/22/2006 : 11:45:26 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
It looks as if these will cost about the same as a comperably sized stand alone generator but may be the way to go since you have the tractor and, presumably, a supply of diesel fuel. The question is would it be convenient for you to not have the use of the tractor for anything else while it was powering the generator and the generator was attached to and powering your house? Also, would you want the tractor running that close to the house? I don't know how loud it is. Anyway, check out:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CatDsp?storeId=6970&N=36+182378&Ne=2
Regards... Alan K.
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flopshot
Starting Member

1 Posts

Posted - 12/27/2006 : 4:36:52 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
all good information. i'd just like to add for you folks with single cyl. four strokes, park the engine at top dead center by slowly pulling the starter rope utill you feel resistance. this closes both valves preventing moisture, and prevents valves sticking in the open position.
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ElmerJFudd
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

USA
2213 Posts

Posted - 12/29/2006 : 2:47:14 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
Welcome to the boards. That sounds like sound advice, thank you. I would still suggest spraying some pure silicon lubricant(not WD-40 or similar products)into the spark plug hole(s)if you don't anticipate using the generator for a long time. This has worked for me.
By the way, I shouldn't have to remind you all, but you need to secure your generators. The goblins are starting early this year. According to Broward Sheriffs Office detectives in Oakland Park, at least 23 generators have been stolen in that area in the last few weeks.
http://www.nbc6.net/news/10624130/detail.html
Regards.... Alan k.
Edited by - ElmerJFudd on 12/30/2006 12:23:31 AM
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RAMBO RULZ
Gunboards Premium Member

Canada
138 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 : 8:41:17 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote
You guys are obviously very informed about your generators. Just wanted to mention some complications with diesel fuel if you use a diesel gen. In cold, extreem wheather, diesel fuel "congeals" or gells and can turn into a waxy substance making it totally useless. Don't know if you've seen this before, but here in Canada it's a real problem, yet easilly avoidable. Additives such as "Howes" or "Lucas" fuel treatments will totally eliminate these problems. Also moisture in diesel fuel causes havik, these additives take care of this as well. Another thing, don't neglect your fuel filter. Most diesel gens will have one. Dont change it based on hours of engine operation, that won't be often enough. Change it each season and always have a spare, you'll probably need it if you get some bad fuel. Even out of the pumps diesel can have alot of moisture and WILL gel when it gets below 0.
Rule of thumb 95% of the time, "if your diesel won't start,...It's either out of fuel, it's got bad fuel, or fuel filter is plugged", and believe me, working in a truck dealership for 12-years, I know this to be true!(for you guys who know the intricacies of electronic controls; sure, there's alot of potential problems here too; but lets keep it simple.) If your diesel gen dont run, change the fuel filter, add some "Howes" to your tank, let it sit 20-mins, start it.
Lots of people say, diesel engines will run on anything. Although that is true to an extent, you would be doing damage to your diesel by burning lets say used motor oil or french fry grease. Problem here is that diesel engines use a fuel injection system which relys on the lubrication and cooling qualities of diesel fuel, specificaly. Sure, alternative fuels may get you thru if desparate times come but please do not exersise your diesel engine with anything but quality diesel fuel. Diesels run on french-fry grease, but dont overlook the refining process it goes thru before hand. Additives are used to replace the lubrication and cooling properties normaly supplied by the diesel fuel. As a matter of fact, you could take a dump in the fuel tank, mix a bit of urine and a bottle of Jack Daniels and you'd be purring like a kitten!!! but, so what, why would anyone want to do that anyways! Go solar. Wind mill, deep cycle battery pack, and big ass inverter. Same investment as a big diesel gen and you'd never run out. The windier the better and you'd never consider shitting in it or wasting your J-D!!!
 

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I bought military generator АБ-4 about 4-6 kw nominal and 8-14 kw maximal (not for a long time) 551d6692.jpg electric an kick starter, have a regulated coolant, eternal filter, can use any fuel (very very bad gasoline 60-80 octane level (maybe diesel if started on gasoline), haven`t any elektronik components, 4,5 liter of oil in engine, visible oil pressure indicator !, fuel pump can use any outstanding fuel tank (but I use original for 25 liters) First of all I changed carburator for new from 250 cc scooter, and bosch Cu spark plugs. I spend only 1.1 liters per hour (chipest gasoline) I don`t need to stop it during refilling.
I decided to mounted it inside in warm place because after -25 degree of Celsium below zero fuel does not evaporate in carburator, diesel good one but it,s not cheap ( a lot of parafine contains) and no one can start it in our winter without serious heating of all the fuel pumps lines filters and tank ( I saw a 100w lamp in the diesel fuel tank ) and of course price 250 $ for good made USSR :thumbsup: arsenal new generator, I use old car accumulators, in ten years I change only one seal ring, and nothing, and I have very very quality electricity all parameters are perfect, without any pulsation and overloads
 

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Mounting the generator inside to keep it warm was a good idea, only if it is not in an area that is used by people or animals. The exhaust needs to be ventilated or you will quickly accumulate enough carbon monoxide to kill any people or animals in an enclosed space.
 

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I live in Russia. In our country always something happends :confused: you can stay without electricity for a week easily, one time 12 years in winter magistral gas was down :mad, robbery :tisk:, thanks god that we don`t have earthquakes. I don`t know how you biuld your own houses, but when I biuld my, half undegrounded floor I made of half meter good concrete walls, all the rooms and technical areas and finish sauna :grin: was thought and isolated. My generator situated in the far corner, have fire proof door with door eye, big! automatic powder fire extinguisher, outside main switch, shock absorbers in slipway, generator mounted on it 40 sm above the floor for good service, all wires in metal tubes, and stainless dish under generator to prevent oil or fuel leaking. I don`t use magistral gas for it it`s cheap (and I have it) but extreamly dangerous, I made also separate boiler room with 40 kwt gas boiler, 100 l electric boiler and water treatment system, all water and heating pipes are copper made :thumbsup:. Outside I have artesian well and automatic septic with two 5 meters deep wells. Just in case on the first floor in kitchen I mounted old chech but with good ceramic furnace solid fuel stove also connected to heating mainline. My not so big (about 370 square meters) but we (with my father) biuld it for 15 years :p have 2 floors and half underground technical floor with ex garage (now fathers workshop with all kinds of machines and tools). Main two main floors made of 250 mm laminated timber :thumbsup: (almoust great material), three years ago we changed old windows to high emission three-chamber one (first floor with wrought iron railings, second with security film). Doors it was something amayzing, fathers friend worked in metal plant make a gift: garage bays and entrance door was made of 5 mm of alloyed semihardened steel with massive hunges and 20 sm channel frame (bays was mounted with great truck crane in the wall formwork before concrete filling) it was difficult to change old locks to abloy good one. Gable zinced steel roof have a long overhang (1.5 m) and proper tilt angle about 25 dgr, one part is always under the sun. Friend of mine make a gift: 10kwt interactive ups and now I have a idea of good solar power plant on my roof :thumbsup:
 

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Hey Mokus, what kind of opportunitys do you have there for what we would call homesteading?
Just going off into open land and building a home or farm to live on.
My impression of Russia is that there is still vast open woodlands and forests that could be settled.
 

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really don`t understand your question, if you want modern house with all with modern comforts you`ll need to build house in downtown, if you want russian vast expanses and comfort you`ll need to find something interesting, a friend of mine find it here http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=49.650543&lon=40.617721&z=16 hills, flax meadows, good outstanding homestead (with magistral gas, electricity, good road) nice hunting nearby. In september we go http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=64.407266&lon=35.019801&z=16&m=b live for some weeks in fishmens hut in real wilderness with anything only camp led lamps - real fishing for salmon, hunting for goose and seal, but I prefer south downtown of Moscow nearby Gerard Depardieu house :crossfingers:
 

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really don`t understand your question, if you want modern house with all with modern comforts you`ll need to build house in downtown, if you want russian vast expanses and comfort you`ll need to find something interesting, a friend of mine find it here http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=49.650543&lon=40.617721&z=16 hills, flax meadows, good outstanding homestead (with magistral gas, electricity, good road) nice hunting nearby. In september we go http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=64.407266&lon=35.019801&z=16&m=b live for some weeks in fishmens hut in real wilderness with anything only camp led lamps - real fishing for salmon, hunting for goose and seal, but I prefer south downtown of Moscow nearby Gerard Depardieu house :crossfingers:
I meant "off grid" type living. Just build yourself whatever you want to live in.
How is ownership of the land determined in undeveloped areas, do you have to buy it or is it something you can claim as your own if you live there long enough?
 

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Don't understand your salary numbers.. Russian per capita GDP is a little less than $15,000 per year. When you say "money can do anything in your country" does that mean enough money can buy ways around laws and help officials look the other way? Or does it mean something else?
 

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yes, if you kill someone in self-defense `you`ll better give 5000$ to investigating officer now, because after you`ll give 30000$ to judge ;), driver license, laws, departmental belonging , all you want :grin:
 

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In other words, any land you buy or any improvements you make, you could lose to some government official or rich influential person if they could bribe the right people? That doesn't sound like much of a deal.
 

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I was just curious to know how easy it might be for Russian people like us to go off grid and start anew. Away from cities and all.
 

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We don`t start anew, usually we have a flat in the city, and when we have some extra money we`ll buy some house in downtown, in far village, or maybe land, who was in Russia knows magic word "dacha" I`ll go hunting in such place (friend bought 120 acr of land) nearby (I know) his neighbor widow sells 5 acr with sauna, pond with fish. warm hotblock and unfinished (only brick walls) house (electricity 3 thase 25 kwt connected) only for 15000$ here http://wikimapia.org/#lang=ru&lat=56.359973&lon=39.216170&z=17 I`ll take the some photo.

Returning to problems with electricity - yesterday I went to my own house and was surprised - temperature only +2 C" inside, my UPS (only for gas boiler) with 200 Ah acc was fully discharged, generator was in manual start position - shit but not at all :( , water lines wasn`t damaged, started manually boiler to +20
 
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