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Discussion Starter #21
There were rifles without suffix, these are always the very early rifles.

if I was to make a guess it would nevertheless bring € 1500-2000 in an EGun auction. Mainly because of the value of the parts.



It´s the range I´d payed. So, you would pay this only for the parts (if you get them) and I´d payed it for a maybe really good re-applied one ..., which need a lot of work/time, the parts to fake it in this condition ...? They need to scrub the old numbers! So where are the traces?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
There are no „early snipers“. These were made based on new production rifles rather than to take worn/used guns for sniper conversion. Additionally, the bolt on your rifle has the i suffix but „matches“ the receiver. If that bolt is original to the gun, the gun needs to have the i suffix on the receiver as well. It doesn‘t.

Maybe you could post pictures of all serials and especially of all acceptance stamps (right side of the receiver as well as bottom of bolt handle) on the Imperial Section of the www.k98kforum.com. There are experts in there that based on these proofs can tell you which manufacturer and which period your rifle was made and therefore give samples from the same period to compare your rifle with, especially the font for the serial used.

In a previous entry in here I told you the serial on most parts of your rifles doesn‘t have serifs. What it however should. Also look at the serial number stamped on the gas shield („Schlösschen“ in German) - it is different size and different font and with serifs. Also parts that are supposed to have a serial from factory don‘t have a serial on them, such as the magazine floorplate and the buttplate. Also I told you the stock needs to have acceptance proof marks on it; in particular on the right side. If it doesn‘t have proofs there someone sanded them off - and how could the serial on bottom of the stock survive this perfectly and deeply stamped whereas the other markings are (nearly?) gone?

I know it is hard to find out on something like this, especially if you‘ve spent a lot of money on it and thought you have an original rifle. But I don‘t want to lie to you as well. Also I wouldn‘t be surprised to find out you bought this rifle from a seller in Northern of Germany (or if it originally had belonged to this person) since this person used to sell a lot of „replicas“ online, some better, some worse, that weren‘t described as what they are or described in a way that you understood something differently than what they really are.

Re your Erfurt 1907 rifle - I did not comment anything in any way on this rifle.

Why no comment about the Erfurt 1907 rifle? The pic from the handguard and other will follow tomorrow.
 

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Money is relative...30 years from now it will still bring returns in your favor..
ownership shooting interest, returns on your money in the present..

it’s good we have such expectations and experts to clear muddy waters..
100 years, hundred hands, hundred any, estimate values, facts to fakes....
a wave of upsetting analysts...covered by an ownership of interest..
ownership..halve the value, time when it departs a return at no loss...
if all truths are transferred with the rifle..
id own it..many here would..a few experienced experts are looking for better history related originals..
a collecting market for all of us..at differentiations and levels..<>< dan
all this behavioral, emotionally experienced myself even if questionable..in collecting historical items.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Money is relative...30 years from now it will still bring returns in your favor..
ownership shooting interest, returns on your money in the present..

it’s good we have such expectations and experts to clear muddy waters..
100 years, hundred hands, hundred any, estimate values, facts to fakes....
a wave of upsetting analysts...covered by an ownership of interest..
ownership..halve the value, time when it departs a return at no loss...
if all truths are transferred with the rifle..
id own it..many here would..a few experienced experts are looking for better history related originals..
a collecting market for all of us..at differentiations and levels..<>< dan
all this behavioral, emotionally experienced myself even if questionable..in collecting historical items.


Money is to have fun, be happy, absolutely!!!
 

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We do think alike my friend...
 

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Gewehr 98 rifles are not my focus, hence I don‘t feel I could tell you much on your 1907 dating service rifle. Aside of that, even if I would know a lot on these, there is not much to be told on only three pictures not showing much details of a gun.

By naming a potential value I did not intend to say I would pay this. My life is too short to buy faux sniper rifles, unless it is one that can‘t be bought regular. What is not the case with Gew98 sniper rifles.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
Gewehr 98 rifles are not my focus, hence I don‘t feel I could tell you much on your 1907 dating service rifle. Aside of that, even if I would know a lot on these, there is not much to be told on only three pictures not showing much details of a gun.

By naming a potential value I did not intend to say I would pay this. My life is too short to buy faux sniper rifles, unless it is one that can‘t be bought regular. What is not the case with Gew98 sniper rifles.


The G98 is not my focus too, so I´m not absolutely sure about the sniper. I´ve my doubt too, expecially because of the unbelievable condition of the stock and YES, it´s not bought regular what makes it more difficult!

About the Erfurt 1907 dated I thought first, not interesting, but I was wondering about the "BS" abouve the crest. An expert told me, it´s a "K98b" and I was very surprised (I´ll show more about in another thread later). More known is the "Zn" variation and the company who made these. About the "BS" version there shall be a discussion, nothing is exactly known about the company who made these. The "BS" stamp make the rifle interesting, the rest (stock, bolt ....) of it is a collection of different parts during the passing years. This rifle was the reason, why I took a more focus on my "sniper", about the theme "G98".

All in all I´ve learned very much more about my "sniper" in this thread, by searching more information and that´s the sense of its all, to learn and understand more about our "loved babes" ...! It was the first time since 13 years, I´ve take a more intensive focus on it and it was interesting as always. I´m not sure furthermore. ;-)

I´ve learned, to take a more intensive look at the size of the numbers on the different parts. ... and yes, the font on the gas shield is different, but to expect, because they used other stamps (another smaler size there) compare with the receiver, that´s normal for G98 ... I´ve got that information yesterday. So if it´s not real, it´s a very good job!

Right now I recognized scratches at the receiver, so it could be scrubbed ...!?! ... but I miss these scratches on ohter parts.

Anyway, for the price I´d payed everthing will be alright, just only because of the original parts and this interesting conversation. :)
... and it´s a nice rifle ...

1596575345041.jpg 1596575289932.jpg 1596578848947.jpg 1596578859503.jpg 1596577468153.jpg 1596649570009.jpg
1596665904061.jpg
Here there must be the same stamp (size and font), but different to the rest and it is.
Well done ...?!
1596705378893.jpg


1596667146686.jpg
... and I would expect some stamps at the stock here!? But if I think about the rest, this would be an unbelievable mistake!
 

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Well executed, but take special note of the bottom picture here:

You can see on the left where the original Imperial acceptance is still present a bit darker surface plus an equally uneven surface.
On the right where the serial number is applied you can see strokes in the metal going up/down, plus the surface is of a lighter color. This are traces of the original serial having been filed off and a new one reapplied.

Check the underside of the bolt handle, which acceptance proof can you find there? If he was clever he picked the same one as on the receiver, if not this is another proof the bolt is not original to the gun.

Serial inside the stock looks not original as well as the sides of the stock make the stock appear to once have been sanded/cleaned (note the darker areas, especially around the buttplate; this is former dirt that is left in deeper parts). Given the fact the stock was sanded and no acceptance marks remain, how would the serial numbers on bottom of the stock had survived in a condition as it was stamped yesterday?

Edit: I had told you if you want to find out on the 1907 dating rifle please register at www.k98kforum.com and post pictures of this rifle in the imperial section. There are persons there who only collect Imperial German guns and can tell you a virtual ton on your rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Thank´s! ;-)

I´d payed less than 2k euro for it. I´m not sure about "good fake" or "real". That´s the problem with such rare items!!
... but anyway, it´s a nice rifle.
 

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The Erfurt/07 is interesting, though probably not especially valuable... it is a rather rare maker/date, Erfurt was really cutting back on G98 production in 1907 (not that they were all that vigorous of a G98 maker 1899-1906), but they were preparing to produce the Kar.98a and although the P.08 and MG.08 are not specialties of mine, both were introduced in 1908 and Erfurt would eventually make both, along with DWM (I would have to dig through books to see when they did undertake MG and pistol production...). Anyway, what is for sure is 1907 was the last year Erfurt made significant numbers of Gewehr98's, they would make a few in 1908 but only 6 are known and 3 of those were also dated 1912 which indicates their assembly in 1912.

The intertwined "BS" is generally believed to be Republican era railroad related, though this is disputed, basically there is block letter B.S. and intertwined "BS", the block lettered is believed to represent rework by HZa Spandau (Berlin-Spandau), however the diversity of the markings and numerous and various placement patterns through much in doubt... on the K98k forum this subject has been debated extensively, but in your rifles case the counter stamps between the crowned acceptance on the right receiver is a clear sign HZa Spandau worked on this rifle, whether the "BS" is related to that time or earlier/later is impossibly to say, - mostly because the stock is the most important part needed to decipher the history of a German military rifle, and few Republican era G98's have the original stock.

You might show the barrel markings, if it was reworked or re-barreled it may offer clues to when and where, but it might be the original barrel and tell you nothing. If it has the fireproof next to the serial on the barrel that would indicate post-1923 (1924 or later) if absent pre-1924 (which in almost all cases is Imperial era as Germany was in chaos 1918-1923 and little was done before 1924 on German rifles).

About the Erfurt 1907 dated I thought first, not interesting, but I was wondering about the "BS" abouve the crest. An expert told me, it´s a "K98b" and I was very surprised (I´ll show more about in another thread later). More known is the "Zn" variation and the company who made these. About the "BS" version there shall be a discussion, nothing is exactly known about the company who made these. The "BS" stamp make the rifle interesting, the rest (stock, bolt ....) of it is a collection of different parts during the passing years. This rifle was the reason, why I took a more focus on my "sniper", about the theme "G98".
 

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Paul, great to see you here in this thread! What can you tell us on the Gew98 "sniper" rifle of the OP? Which manufacturer/year is the receiver, and what about the bolt of it? Thanks!
 

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Snipers are not my thing really, but the rifle has been tampered with. By the fireproof it is a Danzig, probably 1916, but I would have to see the right receiver to confirm and date the receiver. I am also about 95% sure the serials have been tampered with (pretty much all of them), the fonts are wrong, and coupled with the components, which some are pretty obvious altered, the whole rifle is dubious at best... really the only way to be sure of what is period and what is tampered with is to examine the barreled receiver out of the stock, - between the RR and barrel code I could identify the maker and date, confirm my suspicions the serial has been altered and determine which, if any, of the parts are genuine. The sniper elements and stock serialing are obvious alterations.
 
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