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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
A friend of mine gave my a T-99 with a wierd looking Mum. The Mum has been over struck with a small Jinsen Arsenal mark right in the middle. Has anyone seen one like that before? The rifle stock is really black and unfortunetly has some serious pitting on the barrels bottom side. I have'nt really looked it over really well yet but is really an ugly duckling. Don't think my phone camera will take a good close-up of the Mum. All these Arisucka's are starting to pile up around here. Gotta do something with my sporters soon!



 

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You really must get pictures, or else we can't answer your questions.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The picture actually cleared my vision of being more able to see the Mum. Now I don't know what it is!?!!!? I guess it's a Toyo Kogyo rifle. How do I tell the year of mfg? Maybe 1939-45 Series 35?
 

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Isn't that the Kokura (Tokyo) arsenal mark stamped on arms taken out of service?
The Jinsen mark is a 5 point star with a 'pumpkin' in it. (that is what is look like anyway).
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Your definitly right about it not being a Jinsen mark! When I took pictures with a "real camera" the Mum was a lot more visible for me. I don't know anything about how they mark rifles being taken out of service. This rifle may be a perfect rifle to dissasemble for spare parts. The reciever has big rust pits in the chamber area on the bottom.
 

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Some one else can probably offer a better explanation but arms that were taken out of service for use by a school, or sale to another nation or just to scrap out were stamped like this.
May have been a worn our or junk rifle or still in good shape, just obsolete or surplus to needs.
If it went to a school I think they usually stamped two zero's in front of the serial number, yours does not seem to have them.
 

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Correct on the Sale out of IJA Service (Mum cancelled) and the work done by Kokura ( Koishikawa stopped Rifle making in 1936). Could be a Middle to late-war School or University Gun. Occasionally these "school guns" ended up in the Pacific in Combat...I have a 00 prefix School marked T38 captured in Bougainville by Aussies. Heavily repaired (00 mark) and returned to service.

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Doc AV
 

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That's weird because its a type 99. I've never seen a type 99 canceled like that. ???
 

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Do you think it is because by the time 99 production started needs for arms were growing fast enough few rifles were removed from service?
AS Doc AV states the apparently reversed the process, bringing the surplus arms back for issue.

I recently read that Japan made around 6.4 million rifles and carbines from the beginning of Type 38 production to the end of WWII.

The US made about 6.5 million M-1 carbines in less than 5 years.
 

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Ed is correct, the cancellation of the mum on a 99 is pretty rare. I can see some rifles taken out of service and given to others for training on the "new" rifle. This is the first one I've seen in person too.

As Doc says, many of these school marked rifles were used late in the war in locations other than schools, i.e. combat or in anticipation of combat; even the obsolete T 30 school rifles made their way to the Philippines and other SEA islands and were captured there.

As to the number of rifles made, remember the IJA was not nearly as large as the USA. Some 2.5 million rifles were captured at wars end, just by the US; others would have been left/surrendered in China, Indochina, Indonesia, and the other islands.
 

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