[ncthorn]

For my 18th birthday this past Sunday I received a copy of Lt. Lynn "Buck" Compton's memoir Call of Duty: My Life Before, During, and After the Band of Brothers. Let me start out by saying that it is a fantastic read so far and I highly recommend it to anyone. One paragraph while reading last night really caught my attention though. On page 12, Compton recounts his drop into combat and his loss of the famous leg bag in Normandy saying:

"Worst of all, I had stowed my main weapon in the leg bag, a .30 caliber light carbine rifle. Our company weapons man, Forrest Guth, had modified it to fire full automatic, like a machine gun. I'd just hold the trigger down and let it rip-it was a deadly, capable weapon. Most of the guys carried heavier M-1s-but my job as platoon leader wasn't to be a rifleman, someone expected to do a lot of shooting. Still, I needed to carry something that could get the job done when needed."

Obviously, this weapon is not mentioned in the Band of Brothers television series as it never actually saw combat. The questions I am left asking though are:

-How many other similar conversions saw action in that stage of the war?
-How much freedom did company armorers have as far as tinkering with weapons went?
-Was the conversion common knowledge?
-Was the Army aware of these modifications and what role did they play in the adoption of the M2 Carbine later on?

I am curious to hear other's input and whether or not other rifles of the type made it into action in Normandy. This rifle may very likely have been the only folding stock fully auto M1 Carbine or to the contrary, there may have been many. Additionally, although I very highly doubt it, was this rifle actually a prototype M2 Carbine?

 

[ncthorn]

It has been brought to my attention that these field modified rifles appear in Ruth's "War Baby II" and as such this was not an unique rifle. I do however, find it interesting nonetheless.

 

[Cali2Maine]

Winters' book

I believe in Maj Winters' book (the name of it escapes me, and I don't have it nearby), he describes his M1 Garand as being modified by the armorer at some point in the war to fire full auto too. 8 rounds real fast...fun but not useful I think.

 

[Hartman]

Mr. Guth modified a M1 Garand to fire full auto. I've met him and discussed this modification.
His word is he has no memory of how to do this. In no way, am I implying Buck Compton's words are false. I wasn't alive in the 1940's so I have no idea, and never asked Mr Guth about this.

I have managed to meet a lot of the original BoB vets, and there is a lot left out of the Mini series. Moreover, a lot of action portrays certian soldiers in events that they were not involved.

HBO had to build characters in the mini series, to build the connection between the Actor, and the viewer. No harm, no foul.

All in All, it's one of the best WW2 series I've seen.

 

[cruffleman]

Im glad I saw this post! My Dad claimed his whole life that his carbine in WW2 was a "bullet hose" he said "I would just holt the trigger & she purred like a kitten" He said that it was neccessary with the Japanese because they would rush quickly in numbers. He never modified it & it had no selector, he picked it up because he had no more 30/06 & it was easier to find a loaded gun than to beg for ammo. It was 1943 & there were no M2's around then from what he said. He said he never saw the M2 until his stint in Korea.

 

[Vaarok]

The armorer who worked on Winters Garand was also Guth, according to the book Band of Brothers "many troopers carried these "Guth Specials"". If you file the right bits, you do get slamfire craziness, just look at what the Aussies did to their SLRs in Vietnam.

 

[mauser202]

I asked my neighbor, Bill Guarnere, and he said that Comptons story is true. He said Mr Guth modafied a few rifles like this.

 

[MP517PRCT]

This modification would not be difficult for an armorer to do. WWII armorers also cut down barrels and stocks to make M1 Carbines into long barrelled pistols that were worn with a sling around the neck and the M1 across the chest. Made a convenient backup gun.

 

[scott-9150]

This is interesting because just last night i saw "Heartbreak Ridge" coming on TV. The very beginnning shows some old war footage that appears to be original footage. One clip clearly shows a M1 carbine firing full auto. I couldn 't decide if my eyes were fooling me but then found this thread.

 

[scott-9150]

This is interesting because just last night i saw "Heartbreak Ridge" coming on TV. The very beginnning shows some old war footage that appears to be original footage. One clip clearly shows a M1 carbine firing full auto. I couldn 't decide if my eyes were fooling me but then found this thread.

Well after looking aroung the net i think what i saw was an M2 carbine. I didn't know there was such a animal.

 

[03man]

US ordnance were developing the M2 type carbine in 1944, and 500 were approved for Service test in Sept. 1944.

Would have been hard for one to make the Normandy invasion.

The M2 was also approved as a standard weapon in Sept. 1944, but production did not phase in until May 1945. Reference the book, M1 Carbine by L. Ruth from official US documents.

It would appear that any full auto carbine would have been a field modification if used before the last quarter of 1944.

 

[dfrak]

My father served in Europe during WWII. He told me many years ago it was not unusual to find GIs with M1 carbines converted to full auto. Incidentally, he was issued a carbine, but grabbed a Garand as soon as he could gt his hands on one.

Dan

 

[catsnguns]

The FA conversion of the Garand was well known and apparently easy to do. My father who served in the twilight of the Garand's regular service 57-58 knew about it and had it explained by the Korean era NCO,s that did his basic training. The Garand fires so fast as to be almost uncontrolable from what I have read which was why it was not widely done. One source said the silly thing would empty the whole 8rd clip before it would be posssible to release the trigger. I also heard another report say the silly conversion was done to for firing at low flying German aircraft!

 

[BRussell]

This is interesting because just last night i saw "Heartbreak Ridge" coming on TV. The very beginnning shows some old war footage that appears to be original footage. One clip clearly shows a M1 carbine firing full auto. I couldn 't decide if my eyes were fooling me but then found this thread.

Nothing unusual about an M2 Carbine in Korea.

 

[Kgordon]

FA Garand

The FA conversion of the Garand was well known and apparently easy to do. My father who served in the twilight of the Garand's regular service 57-58 knew about it and had it explained by the Korean era NCO,s that did his basic training. The Garand fires so fast as to be almost uncontrolable from what I have read which was why it was not widely done. One source said the silly thing would empty the whole 8rd clip before it would be posssible to release the trigger. I also heard another report say the silly conversion was done for firing at low flying German aircraft!

Interesting! When I was in Basic Training in 1960 at Fort Ord, during our rifle training with live ammo one day, the fellow in the pit one over from me had his Garand go FA unexpectedly. He thought he had only fired one round, and was confused that his empty clip had ejected.

As he started to reload it, one of the Sergeants standing nearby grabbed the rifle away from him, and completely wrapped it from front sight to butt with what looked like Duct Tape.

He told me that about a year earlier, a Garand had gone FA on a recruit, he had swung it around and had drilled a Lieutenant through the head.

I learned to "bump-fire" my Garand from the shoulder, although we didn't call it that then.

The first time I did it, one of the Sergeants yelled, "Did that go full auto on you?". I said, "No". He then asked me to show him what I did. So I did it again. He told me not to do that anymore. But when we "attacked a hill" at the end of basic with live ammo, he brought me a helmet full of clips to "repel counter-attack" at the top of the hill because my Garand was the only one still working.

I loved that rifle.

 

[jjk308 In Memoriam RIP]

I know an ex marine gunnery Sgt who carried an M2 carbine on long range patrols in Vietnam. It was pre m16, and he could carry way more ammo with a M2 than with the M14.
He said he only used the FA twice, both times to keep the VC down while they ran for a pickup helo, because he was trained for aimed fire and also was afraid of running out of ammo a long way from any resupply.

 

[EricOKC]

Well after looking aroung the net i think what i saw was an M2 carbine. I didn't know there was such a animal.

Yeppers, my dad carried one as a Navy corpsman in Korea during the war.

Many re-arsenaled carbines, including mine, actually have an M2 stock which has the cut- out for the auto-selector switch.

 

[happygramps]

auto

many soldiers in wwii filed their m1 carbine to be fully auto. its not selective fire so it wasted alot of amo. I think ernie pyle even mentioned this in one of his books.

 

[bones92]

Very interesting thread. Makes you wonder why the Army didn't develop a squad rifle using an M1 modifed to take removeable magazines, add a light-weight bipod and a selector switch. Instant substitute for the heavy BAR (in a pinch).

 

[Mike In memoriam]

Weight of ammo and mission are considerations.
I humped the bush for 16 months with CIDG irregulars.
I was forced to use a M2 for a while.
I felt like I took a toy gun to a gunfight.
We usually did week long operations and had to carry everything as we had no field resupply capability.

5+ canteens in the dry season, chow, batteries for the 25, smoke and frag gernade or two, bunch of magazines, and more ammo in triple canopy at 110deg tends to wear on one.
We also had a couple BARs for and A6s for support and they were monstrosities.
Everybody got to hump some of their ammo.
As with full auto 14s, the operating rod on the carbine slamming about was sometimes problematic.
M16s were a big improvement no matter what the comicbooks say.

I seen grown men sniveling about carrying heavy stuff from their cars all the way to the range.