[Avenger]

Was there ever such an animal? My grandfather SWEARS that senior NCOs in his company carried them onto the beach during the Anzio landing. My guess was that the unit armorer was persuaded to lighten up some triggers and simply went too far, but could it have been done on purpose? Is it even possible to make a 1911 fire full auto? (I'm not asking how, just if it could.)

 

[SfcRet]

You can make any semi-auto pistol fire "auto" mode, by filing too much off the disconnector. friend of mine, years ago, sent a .45 pistol to a so called "custom gunsmith" the first time he fired it at the indoor range, the thing empty out the mag at same time it became a anti-aircrat weapon.

But to answer your question, no, there was no such of a thing as a full auto 1911 made by any manufaturer

 

[Avenger]

I was more than a little skeptical that one would be a factory piece. Given the large number of tommies and M1 carbines around by then, I don't see any reason for a full-auto pistol, other than being cool.

 

[RuralTurtle]

Never heard of a martial full-auto 1911 nor one made on a large scale commercially.

I seem to recall the gangster Dillinger had one in .38 Super: http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/web/dillinger.htm

 

[jimlay]

I had my Colt .22 Service Ace dump a full clip years ago. Inspection showed that old gun oil had gummed up and essentially immobilized the disconnector. After a thorough cleaning, it never did it again.

 

[lpcullen]

1911

In some obscure book years ago I saw a picture of a 1911 modified to full auto by the IRA. It had a home made selector on it and used two mags welded together ( I assume it would hold less than 15 rounds?) For the life of me I cannot find this picture again. Another strange full auto I remember was a Winchester 94 modified in Cuba to full auto using a german snail drum!

 

[fredh]

The Spanish firm Star made a .45 auto rook arike, some of which were full auto. Back in the '70s, I wrote nearly every European producer of small arms trying to find history on mods of Japanese rifles to other calibers and European use of such arms. Star sent me a care package of history, drawings, photos, of their products that was just terrific. In their write-up they mentioned manufacturing small quantities of the Models A, M, and P with full auto fire capability.

 

[Red Nine]

IMO, any pistol on full auto is a waste of ammo, and most likely will not strike the intended target due to the muzzle climb and recoil produced from the high rate of fire. Adding a stock will help stabilize the muzzle climb, such as in the C96 Schnell.

 

[Clyde]

There is a newsreel of an assassination during a parade in Fwance (in Marseilles, i think) in which a bad guy used either a C/96 Schnellfeuer or one of the Spanish full-auto copies to whack a politician. KAte 20s or mid-30s IIRC; in any case, between the Wars. Gun climbs uncontrollably and only made a few hits out of the full magazine. Ran astonishingly fast. The perp was cut down immediately afterwards by escorting curriassers - chopped to dog meat. Seems those swords weren't JUST for show...

 

[amafrank]

There have been a number of 1911's converted to full auto but not any by Colt that I know of. Max Atchisson did at least one and a few other Class 2's built and registered guns prior to the 1986 cutoff. As for the Anzio story thats all it is, a story.

Concerning the usefulness of machinepistols there is definately a place for them but standard military issue probably is not it. They are not uncontrollable if you are trained in their use but neophytes have tendancies that make a questionable situation worse. Things like stiff-arming the pistol or putting most of your weight on the back leg while firing will most definately add up to overhead fire. A trained individual with a proper stance, grip and familiarity with the firearm can be devestating at close range. I've seen a couple guys myself that can either dump full mags or fire short bursts from their Glock 18's and keep all 32rds in the black at 25yds. I can't do that with a glock but with my Skorpion Vz61 I can(my biggest mag is 28rd though). The first time I fired a Schnellfeuer mauser I couldn't keep it on a trash can at 10yds but I could easily put all 20rds on a pie plate at 50yds now. I fired one recently and remarked to my friend who owned it that I was surprised at how easy it was to control and keep on target. It is a big heavy pistol compared to most of the others and with a stock it is as easy to handle as any of the other period subguns. Mini Uzi's, M11/9's and other micro sub guns are incredibly fast compared to the old mauser yet they don't have the same reputation for anti-aircraft spray....I'd take the mauser with no stock any day over a mini uzi with one...
When these weapons are combined with proper tactics in a situation that favors the very concealable machinepistol they will be the ideal weapon. The Skorpion was favored by airline hijackers for some years due to its big firepower in a small concealable package. The stechkin was used with good results by Spetznaz though its usefulness to armored troops was questionable. The tool must fit the task and the biggest problem with these machinepistols is that they are often used badly for a completely unsuitable task by untrained persons....
My opinions of course.

Frank

 

[Machinegunner]

machine pistols.

As far as I know, the only factory 1911 model full-auto was made by Star.

I have to agree with Frank in the above post, with exercise, those pistols can be shot in full and stay on target.

I shot C96, scorpion, Stechkin, Glock,......
But, one of the best pistols I have shot is the CZ75 AUTOMATIC. It was surprising to feel the ease to control this pistol. Of course the compensator and the use of the 2nd magazine as a frontgrip will add in control. I could keep a 32 rnd mag on the 'hitzone' of the IPSC target.

The one I have the most problems with is the Stechkin, due to the slow rate of fire this pistol 'rocks or rolls' much to fire without the stock.
When the stock is attached, that's way better.
The most "scary" one I shot is the Micro Uzi, scary fast.........

The best machine pistol to stay on target in full-auto (even single handed with practice) is the Polish Wz63. I really like shooting this one!

oops.... sorry to hijack.

 

[cpw]

Although not a Colt 1911, during WWII, the Germans experimented with making Hi-Powers able to operate in full auto mode. At least some of the work was done at the FN factory. The example I am aware of is in a police museum in Germany, having been surrendered thereto many years ago.

 

[Clermont]

In the 1940s Colt experimented with prototype full auto Model 1911 pistols in .45 ACP and .38 Super. Colt's research and development team of William L. Swartz and Horace J. Kennedy received U.S. patent number 2462505 for this invention. This is the link to view the seven pages of this patent.

http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?docid...1=2462505.PN.%26OS=PN/2462505%26RS=PN/2462505

 

[RuralTurtle]

Another strange full auto I remember was a Winchester 94 modified in Cuba to full auto using a german snail drum!

That sounds like a pretty wacky device, to say the least.

 

[raul]

The type 1911 made by Star, model M, is a full auto pistol with a system unique that makes the full auto use totally controllable.When you handle the pistol the right grip is noticeable fatter, this is because beneath the grip the maker installed a device that winds up when the slide recoils and when the slide gets into battery again and the tigger is still depressed the hammer falls with a delay that enables the user to control the pistol with ease, besides the magazine is oversized holding many rounds, never tried to fill it but its at least 12 inches long or more-My star is in 9mmLargo and it has a stock like the C96 that also acts as holster -As a curiosity my pistol belonged to the Dictator Anastasio Somoza

 

[Clermont]

Another strange full auto I remember was a Winchester 94 modified in Cuba to full auto using a german snail drum!

John Browning's idea that led to the Colt Model 1895 Potato Digger machinegun was the result of prototypes using Winchester Model 1873 lever action rifles with a gas port beneath the barrel near the muzzle and a flapper with linkage that operated the lever and fired the rifle as it swung in a arc, as the eventual Model 1895 Potato Digger would do.

 

[John Sukey]

A friend got a surprise when his Webley Fosberry (revolver)went full auto. Dried grease in the disconnector.

 

[raul]

For unvoluntary full auuto fire my High Standard Supermatic Trophy is the queen, I have postponed taking it to the gunsmith because its fun!!!

 

[Clyde]

For unvoluntary full auuto fire my High Standard Supermatic Trophy is the queen, I have postponed taking it to the gunsmith because its fun!!!

If you are located in the UISA - that delay is potential trouble. Fun to rattle off a magazine in a second or less, but [possibly getting a five year vacation (and a five figure fine) courtesy of ATFE and the US Attorney would not be.

 

[raul]

Tks for your advise, I 'm not a US resident and BTW that pistol is on the way oto the gunsmith after the accidental discharge, it happened only once .