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Bayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 4:09:28 PM I just won this carbine in a Norwegian auction. It is apparently a rather nice Kar88. It sold at approximately $500. How did I do? It is described as all matching. I've asked the seller for date and arsenal markings, but haven't heard from him yet. The rear sling swiwel has been moved about 10cm he wrote, but it is otherwise unmessed with. All the carbine pics (few) I find online seem to have the same sling attachment as the Kar98a, but mine does not have that cut through the stock. Now what do I have? I don't think it is turked, the seller states it probably came here during WWII, but who knows?

I've not seen another Kar88 for sale here at all, there simply aren't any to compare with, so I've really no idea of price range etc, but I figured when I finally came across one I had to go for it.

These are the auction pics, I'll post better ones once I get it.

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All comments are welcome.
Edited by - Bayonetcollector on 06/15/2007 4:48:55 PM Gustaf B
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


USA
1022 Posts
Posted - 06/10/2007 : 5:09:35 PM Hey BC,
It looks good to me, these are not very common in this part of the world, and I think you did good on the price.
Gus
Bayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 6:18:15 PM Thanks a lot Gus. I'm glad to have found it.

Can anyone enlighten me on the sling question? The pics I see online of these all have the same sling attachment as the Kar98a has, with a cut through the stock. This one has the attachment for the quick release instead. Is this a normal variation?
TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum


USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 08:15:22 AM Very interesting little Kar, BC. No, it is not a normal variation. Are there any marks on the stock? Could be an after market stock? The proof marks seem to be civilian and the magazine has an intriguing little tab on the side, can you show us a picture of that detail when you get it? Who was the maker? Could be a post military modification for a hunting rifle?Big commander
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


Belgium
967 Posts
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 09:47:36 AM Like TP says, there is this little intriguing tab on the magazine. I've never seen this (but who am I?
).
Ubique fidelis et fortis
(1st recce)
Edited by - Big commander on 06/12/2007 09:48:39 AMBayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/15/2007 : 4:47:42 PM I got my nice little Kar88 home today. A lovely little thing, a bit battered and hard ridden. However, who am I to complain? I only know of one other Kar88 in Norway, a military one that a Norwegian collector imported from the US in the 80s. May be mine and his are the only Kar88s in the country? If there are more they are certainly never around for sale. So, I'm as pleased as can be.

This is a civilian model I'm told, but it is definitely made from parts made for military contracts as most of the parts are imperial proofed. The stamps on the left of the receiver are 2.75g G.B.P over st m.g. Apparently these are civilian markings giving the amount of smokeless powder to be used for loading. I've been told (by gunboards member Vladymere) that this means it was made between 1891 and 1912. There is no arsenal mark or date stamp, but the receiver is marked Kar88 and is probably originally made for military use.

There is no sign it ever went to Turkey. I find myself believing the story that it has come with a German during WWII, someone assigned here who was not on his way to the front, an officer or beaurocrat perhaps?

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Here are the left receiver markings, sorry, some of the pics are a bit unclear.

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The sight is quite strange. It is fixed, but you can flip up another one hinged to the sight, that is higher. There is no stamp to tell how many metres the two settings are intended for.

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The front is imperial proofed. (Unclear again..)

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Here are the only stamps on the right of the receiver. A different and cruder crown than the imperial proofs.

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What is this button intended for? My Gew88 has no such feature. It connects to a part inside the magazine that looks as if it is to hold the clip or shells down until pressed.

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Now here's the "intriguing little tab" that TP noticed.

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There is one on each side and they open a lid that closes the hole in the bottom of the magazine.

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This lid is hinged and very unlike the ones on the 88/05.

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Here you see the part operated by the button in front of the trigger.

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And finally, an "exploded view".

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All comments are welcome.
Edited by - Bayonetcollector on 06/15/2007 7:10:18 PMdg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


USA
822 Posts
Posted - 06/15/2007 : 8:19:20 PM I think the sight is post WWI.
dg13
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
Bayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 05:45:41 AM
quote: Originally posted by dg13

I think the sight is post WWI.
dg13


There is no sign of having been any other sight on it, not a larger one at least. Also the stamps on the receiver are pre 1912, so I imagine this has been as it is since then, but I have no knowledge about such sights to say you're wrong. What tells you it is post WWI?
dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


USA
822 Posts
Posted - 06/16/2007 : 9:35:16 PM It is not like any Gew88 military carbine sight I've ever seen. I have seen sights like it on civilian (old military)carbines. It could be a conversion from the military carbine pre WWI too. I cannot make out the crown--too blury.
dg13
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
A1Coyote
Gunboards Member


USA
72 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 6:48:15 PM
quote: What is this button intended for? My Gew88 has no such feature. It connects to a part inside the magazine that looks as if it is to hold the clip or shells down until pressed.


You hit the nail on the head. The button once depressed allows a full or partially full clip to be removed through the open action. You are used to not seeing it on your Gew 88/05, as they were removed because the 88/05's no longer used the packet/Mannlicher style clips.

I saw a copy of an advertisement from a Firm known as Alfa, from around 1911. They sold surplus German rifles & carbines. I recognized the sling swivels being mounted below the stock instead of on the left and thru the stock. I might have seen the Alfa advert. in Walters "The German Rifle".

That is a nice carbine, wish it were mine!

A1Coyote
Gunboards Member


USA
72 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2007 : 9:47:18 PM This is from a 1911 ALFA catalog, look what the hand points to! Says renovated, specially tested, with swivels, sight with silver point. Does your sight have a silver point too? Your rear sight appears like it might be the same as the bottem example with the hair trigger lock. So the sights are pre-WWI. Something kind of amusing is that ALFA was advertising the Kar 88 as a Mauser Mod. 88 Carbine!

[URL="http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5118/alfacat1911qo2.jpg"]http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5118/alfacat1911qo2.jpg[/URL]




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Edited by - A1Coyote on 06/26/2007 10:38:04 PMKrag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


3553 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 1:45:48 PM For what it's worth, I'm guessing that ALFA put together a bunch of carbines using Kar. 88 barreled actions fitted to cut down rifle stocks and bands with a sporting type rear sight. Such "parts guns" were a common feature of the German and Belgian "merchants of death" of the late 19th an early 20th centuries.


I must admit that I have never seen that type of trap on the magazine housing and would have loved to have had photos of it for my recent book.
"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein
TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum


USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 3:10:50 PM Great photos of a wonderful little carbine Bayonetcollector, thanks for posting them. The hinged cover for magazine opening is a nice feature, that and the rear sight make me think that this was made by ALFA for the civilian market from surplus parts - a rare variant and a collectible in its own right. Excellent!A1Coyote
Gunboards Member


USA
72 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2007 : 5:44:32 PM
quote: This lid is hinged and very unlike the ones on the 88/05

Sporters like the one's that Thieme & Schlegelmilch produced had the same hinged lid on the bottem of the magazine. Wish I had a pic of one to share on this thread.

Bayonetcollector, have you checked what caliber it is?
Edited by - A1Coyote on 06/27/2007 6:21:01 PM
 
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