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Bayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/17/2007 : 6:03:49 PM It struck me... I haven't posted a picture for a long time.

Here's one from seegefeld in january 1915. What kind of rifle is he carrying? I see a bayonet mount on the side. Is this a 71/84? Or what?

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All comments are welcome.
JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector


USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 05:11:03 AM Yo BC,

Great photo and you have me completely stumped? No way is it a 71 or 71/84 and it has a German style quick detachable swivel? It's too short for a 71 or a 71/84 and has no stacking hook on the front of the magazine nosecap, which is a feature of the 71/84? Besides, the forearm is too slim for a 71/84.

The top band is unknown to me and it does appear to have a side mount bayonet lug? Then to make it more confusing still, it has a banded front sight?


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I haven't a clue on this one? Nice mystery photo!

Thanks BC. I'll post a link over on the Mauser Forum.

Warmest regards,

JPS


PS - It MIGHT be a Haenel? That's the only rifle that crosses my mind, but without my library I can't check it against actual photos..........only from memory? But the Haenel doesn't have a side mount bayonet? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Edited by - JPS on 06/18/2007 05:21:42 AMKrag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


3553 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 06:09:48 AM From the muzzle it looks like a French Gras EXCEPT for that slight bulbous section on the tip of the barrel. Hmmmmmmmm..............
"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein
PeterS
Gunboards Super Premium Member


Germany
344 Posts




Posted - 06/18/2007 : 07:01:33 AM
quote: Originally posted by Krag


From the muzzle it looks like a French Gras EXCEPT for that slight bulbous section on the tip of the barrel. Hmmmmmmmm..............
Dust cover?
Big commander
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


Belgium
967 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 4:58:56 PM Unless altered, the bolt handle doesn't seem that of a Gras.Ubique fidelis et fortis
(1st recce)TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum


USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 5:25:03 PM There does appear to be a South American contract style Mauser muzzle cover as PeterS suggests. I can't see a channel for a cleaning rod in the stock and there doesn't seem to be one visible under the barrel. Big Commander is right, the bolt handle does look like a Mauser style rather than a Gras. And the barrel seems to be bright instead of blued. The stock tip (or front band?) is probably key to identifying the actual make/model of gun but it has me completely stumped.... John, the Haenel is the closest I can come up with as well but shouldn't it have provision for a cleaning rod? One other thing that is odd, the muzzle seems to extend way out past the end of the stock, if the rifle will take a bayonet (that might be a side lug for fixing one, can't really be sure but what else would it be?) then the bayonet's handle would have to be in the neighborhood of 6 inches long from muzzle ring to the butt of the pommel. Hmmmm.....dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


USA
822 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 6:28:50 PM Bolt handle and bottom of the stock look like my 1903 turk rifle.
dg13"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"ryg
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


USA
678 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 8:39:56 PM The front end is probably a muzzle cover, not a band for the sight. A Gew98 style bayonet lug may be there but not visible due to the lighting and the angle. A thin front band and the teardrop bolt handle suggest a late model export Mauser.DocAV
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Australia
3278 Posts
Posted - 06/18/2007 : 10:11:26 PM M1904/07 Chinese (Export) Mauser; Most probable one, either in 6,8mm (original) or 7,9mm (Reworked by Mauser and issued to Wurttemberger Regts (two at least). ?1915, I would say probably still in 6,8mm for training.

Any other ideas, fellas? BTW, the sharp lighting does obscure some of the features(short bayo. Bar, detail of Muzzle cap, etc, which do distort the Picture somewhat)

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.Krag
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


3553 Posts
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 08:40:56 AM Upon closer inspection I agree that bolt knob does not look like a Gras, nor does the rear q.d. sling mount. But that long section of exposed barrel looks more like a French rifle than a German. Hmmmmm......as the Sage of Baker Street once said, "Curiouser and curiouser."
"Use up all your ammo and have fun."

Starship Troopers
Robert Heinlein
Big commander
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member


Belgium
967 Posts
Posted - 06/20/2007 : 11:10:17 AM One thing is sure, his name was Fritz!
I have a theory about the rifle, you won't like it but I give it anyway. This photo, like so many, was made by a professional photographer, maybe this rifle was only "half real" and in fact a prop from the photographer's studio. Please note also that he was the 17th in line of the men wo had their picture taken that day (or week?). This reference number can be seen at the right of his left knee, on the ground.
And for my punishment to be so stupid and ignorant
, the transcription of the German Text:


Feldpostkarte
Fräulein Agnes Hoch
Hornhausen
B(ei) Oschersleben
Sachsen


Seegefeld, d(en 16/1/15
L(ieber) A(gnes), deinen lieben Brief und Karte hab ich gestern Abend beides zusammen erhalten, der Brief hatte sich in Altengrabow verspätet. Schicke dir von hier eine Karte zum Andenken.
Es grüsst vielmals dein Fritz.
Brief folgt in diesen Tagen.Ubique fidelis et fortis
(1st recce)TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum


USA
2034 Posts




Posted - 06/20/2007 : 5:47:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by Big commander


One thing is sure, his name was Fritz!
I have a theory about the rifle, you won't like it but I give it anyway. This photo, like so many, was made by a professional photographer, maybe this rifle was only "half real" and in fact a prop from the photographer's studio. ....
You know, you may very well be right...
Nulle100
Gunboards Member


19 Posts
Posted - 06/21/2007 : 12:55:59 PM I think it is actually a Gew 98. The sun is directly overhead judging by the shadow under the fence, thus distorting the bright bolt knob and the angled away barrel. The "Seegefeld, d(en 16/1/15"
Is the city and post date (16 January 1915). The 16 January post date doesn't mean the day of the photo
[/URL]JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector


USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 06/22/2007 : 8:46:19 PM Yo Gents,

The more I have looked at this, the more I think that Jack and DocAv are correct. (Jack commented in the thread on the Mauser Forum) If it were a Gew 98, you couldn't miss the H-band. It almost has to be a Model 1904/07 Chinese contract rifle. That is the ONLY rifle I can think of that has a diminutive top barrel band along with the German quick detachable swivel.

Where it a slapped together photographic prop they certainly would not have gone to the trouble of adding this feature or a muzzle cover?

Either way you slice it, it's a very interesting photo!

Thank you again for posting it BC!

Warmest regards,

JPS
Edited by - JPS on 06/23/2007 9:38:25 PMBayonetcollector
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member


Norway
1471 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 3:34:29 PM The mystery may indeed be solved JPS, it really had me thinking. But, seeing that the real expertise also had to think hard to find the answer means that this amateur does not feel to bad at not having found the answer myself.
Thanks a lot guys.


The card itself contains little of military interest, but I'll translate it anyway, Big Commander has taken the work to transcribe it. Here it is.

Feldpostcard
Miss Agnes Hoch
Hornhausen
Near Oschersleben
? Sachsen

Seegefeld, the16th of january 1915
Dear Agnes, yesterday evening I got your dear letter and card together, the letter had been delayed in Altengrabow. I send you a card from here to remember. Your Fritz greets you many times. A letter will follow in a few days.
JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector


USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 06/23/2007 : 9:40:59 PM Come on BC! You must be pulling our leg on this one?

A German named Fritz?


Will wonders never cease?


Thank you for sharing this with us and for all of your other contributions to the Forum!

Warmest regards,

JPS
 
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