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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So what is the deal with 19° and the 20° shoulder angle? I just picked up a VZ24 and also have a 98k. I have the GO and the NO GO gauges. Can I check these rifles with these gauges? I tried them on both and both passed.

Thanks, James
 

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The difference in shoulder angle is of NO Practical Significance in the chambering and firing of ammunition. The Cartridge will fit both chambers, and fire safely...it is called Cartridge-to-Chamber tolerances.

And unless you are fitting a new chambered barrel ( ie, newly made up after-market), Headspacing is a waste of time with Milsurps.

Doc AV
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The difference in shoulder angle is of NO Practical Significance in the chambering and firing of ammunition. The Cartridge will fit both chambers, and fire safely...it is called Cartridge-to-Chamber tolerances.

And unless you are fitting a new chambered barrel ( ie, newly made up after-market), Headspacing is a waste of time with Milsurps.

Doc AV
Waste of time? Maybe for you but I'm quite attached to my face. When bolts do not match, how do you know if it is safe?
 

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Ive used the Forster headspace gages for 15 years and have seen no issue.
Now as far which is correct...well I can't remember the details so don't quote me, but several years ago a highly respected member on the "K98K Page" explained that the difference in the gages was due to the difference in cartridge shoulder specs,chamber shoulder specs and SAAMI or some such.In the end,the difference in shoulder angle used on the gages made no difference in an existing barrelled action.
Ive had mismatched Mauser's that failed Forster NO-GO and FIELD gages that I swapped bolts(spares) until I could get the action to pass No-Go test,and have yet to see any issues in the 15 years Ive used them..
To further add,I have several Yugo rebuilt K98's and unissued grade M48's that will either not close or are tight on a GO gage and they function/fire just fine.
What DovAV said is relevant in regards to the cartridge headspace.

Now the biggest issue Ive ever run into with Mausers such as Turk and Yugo rebarrelled for example,or those that have had barrels set back,is short leade where the bullet is rammed into the rifling as a result.Had two Mausers with that condition that had to have a reamer run in to correct.Symptoms were hard to chamber(would mark bullets with rifling) and excessive pressure.
 

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The difference in shoulder angle is of NO Practical Significance in the chambering and firing of ammunition. The Cartridge will fit both chambers, and fire safely...it is called Cartridge-to-Chamber tolerances.

And unless you are fitting a new chambered barrel ( ie, newly made up after-market), Headspacing is a waste of time with Milsurps.

Doc AV
I have tested over 25 Mosin Nagant M91 and 91/30 rifles, so as to be safe, not sorry.
Then, too, I have Enfields, Mausers... all tested for headspace... Thank you very much, military training!

Two of the Mosin Nagants had excessive head space, though they appeared "newly refurbed".
A third one would not chamber a milsurp cartridge. The bolt head was 0.010" too long, but, when swapped with one of the two with excess space, both tested GO! I have 4 spare bolts, and pulled the bolt head for the other one with excessive head space, so all worked out great!

I make certain the chamber (and the locking lugs in the receiver) are clean of any cosmoline or goo...

I sometimes wonder if, in the heat of the war (these are all 1943 built refurbs) someone new to the line could have made a mistake, or not measured, or, if there were some saboteurs...

My Argentine 1891 Mauser? Yep, am figuring out all the safe parts and specs on her, too. Then, we'll shoot paper, and pigs...
 

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I suspect that headspace is a big issue mostly because anyone can measure it with gauges. Headspace lengths are not "fall off the cliff" absolutes but set with allowances for tolerances and in the case of Field an arbitrary max headspace length for wear, requiring rework or replacement. As Blankwaffe has found even the GO gauges are not absolutes but include a tolerance for a maximum size cartridge.

I've shot rifles with excess headspace plenty of times, with no injury or damage, the biggest PITA being digging out the separated case. That's something that can be fatal in military use, but is only an annoyance to a civilian. Compared to a "Bubba" ultra high pressure reload or an accidental double stroke overload the dangers of excess headspace are minor.
 
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