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Had the opportunity to pick up a very rarely encountered Turkish Officer's Contract FN Model 1922 pistol in 9mm kurtz (.380 auto) at the recent Poulin's Auction, with the right side slide legend of T.C. SUBAY.

Turkey placed at least four small orders for the FN1922 from the mid-1920's to late 1930's. This pistol came from a production run of around 3,000 units, manufactured at Fabrique Nationale of Belgium in 1939. The contract was shipped shortly after the Nazi invasion of Poland, and was intercepted by Germany before it could reach Turkey. The Germans then issued them for their war effort. To date, only around 20 examples have surfaced and been recorded in a database (FN Browning Pistols, by Anthony Vanderlinden, p.259).

The finish is in superb condition at 95% or better, with the only significant bluing loss at the muzzle end of the slide extension. The horn grips have developed a few worm holes, however. The mag is of the correct contract, but not a matching number.

Pics, enjoy, and thanks for looking.
















 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This came with a holster, which has a broken closure strap. It fits the gun, but I can't find any example in Vanderlinden's book which is in the same configuration.

I'll post up some pics tomorrow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Here are the holster pics. The general condition of the leather is good. But the closure strap is beyond saving.

There is no mag pouch. By the looks of the impression around the lanyard ring, it appears that the gun was stored in the holster for a very long time. It's amazing that the pistol condition is so nice.

My guess would be that the holster is one from the many local cottage industry suppliers during the war.








 

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Wow Matt!! Very nice. I have a correct holster for that if you need one.
Hello Junior,

Recent find of another Subay (21).

I'm interested in this holster if still available to compliment a gun being donated to preserve it's history.

I'm looking for any and all historical information for the gun to supplement that of what is already known.
Story goes gun was taken off a German Officer by US troops, that's all I'll share for know.
Gun will be donated to a State Historical Museum.

Hope to here from you.

Take care

Super-66
 

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Hello Junior,

Recent find of another Subay (21).

I'm interested in this holster if still available to compliment a gun being donated to preserve it's history.

I'm looking for any and all historical information for the gun to supplement that of what is already known.
Story goes gun was taken off a German Officer by US troops, that's all I'll share for know.
Gun will be donated to a State Historical Museum.

Hope to here from you.

Take care

Super-66
Congratulations on having a very uncommon piece! I understand that your mind may already be made up, but let me try to change it. I understand that donating to a museum may sound like a good thing and a way to preserve history, but the opposite could end up happening. I do not know which state the museum that you are donating it to is in, but the policies do vary by state. In some states, if a museum takes in a firearm, it must be permanently altered to not fire or "deactivated", which permanently damages and, in some cases, effectively destroys the firearm. Even if the firearm is not deactivated, there is a decent chance that it will languish in the back room of the museum, not being shown, and its story not being told. Even if it is shown, they may throw whatever history it has out the window, and their curator may invent a new story for it. In short, donating it to a museum could effectively destroy its history rather than preserving it.

If you would really like to preserve its history, please consider selling it on the open firearms market and donating the proceeds to the museum, if helping the museum is your true goal. This way the history is preserved and the museum still benefits.
 

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Congratulations on having a very uncommon piece! I understand that your mind may already be made up, but let me try to change it. I understand that donating to a museum may sound like a good thing and a way to preserve history, but the opposite could end up happening. I do not know which state the museum that you are donating it to is in, but the policies do vary by state. In some states, if a museum takes in a firearm, it must be permanently altered to not fire or "deactivated", which permanently damages and, in some cases, effectively destroys the firearm. Even if the firearm is not deactivated, there is a decent chance that it will languish in the back room of the museum, not being shown, and its story not being told. Even if it is shown, they may throw whatever history it has out the window, and their curator may invent a new story for it. In short, donating it to a museum could effectively destroy its history rather than preserving it.

If you would really like to preserve its history, please consider selling it on the open firearms market and donating the proceeds to the museum, if helping the museum is your true goal. This way the history is preserved and the museum still benefits.
Appreciate your feedback and point of view. I plan to meet with the Director or Curator and tour the Museum. If protocol to disable or alter the firearm in any way is true I'll default to keeping it in the family.

Selling it on the open market will again result in it being hidden in a private collection. There's an interesting story of how and where the gun was acquired. That bit of history known to only the immediate family would be lost forever.
 

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Appreciate your feedback and point of view. I plan to meet with the Director or Curator and tour the Museum. If protocol to disable or alter the firearm in any way is true I'll default to keeping it in the family.

Selling it on the open market will again result in it being hidden in a private collection. There's an interesting story of how and where the gun was acquired. That bit of history known to only the immediate family would be lost forever.
I understand your thoughts and feelings on the subject and am glad to hear you will be meeting with the director or curator, many would not do that much diligence. Perhaps another option if you do decide to send it to the museum, consider writing the donation as a loan rather than a donation, that way if the protocol or laws change, you can request to have the firearm transferred back to you or a family member.

As far as items being hidden away in a private collection, while that may be true at times, take a look around on these forums. You can find thousands of "private" collections being shared, stories told, and history being preserved. I think I can speak for many people on this forum in that our main goal is to preserve history. I am unsure how experienced you are in the world of firearms so I must explain that we have a concept of "gun shows", yes some are a bit sleazy, but the more gentlemanly collector-ran gun shows are all very much above board and many collectors go to them simply to show and share their collection. My point is, even if it is sold to a private collection, there is a good chance that its story will be told, especially if you can verify the buyer will do so.

Another option, why not tell its story here? If you are open to its story being told in a museum, then think of these forums as a museum. I, for one, would be absolutely delighted to hear the account of how it was acquired.
 

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Unless the individual involved has very close connections to the museum's mission, (famous person type), or is a local hero (regional/local history), the pistol will most likely languish in the vault. The story may be told for a temporary exhibit, but 99% of museums are over loaded with stuff people think needs to have the tale told, and they just don't have the space, or the interest. I have worked with a number of museums over the last 40 years, and only a firearms museum would have any real interest in the pistol. Make up a web page, a facebook page, or whatever. Sell the pistol with the story documentation and any other objects as a group. Groups of artifacts are the most desired by collectors these days, as telling the story, going beyond contract data, specifications, and designers that the "old" gun collectors focused on. The best conservators of family history are families, then private collectors - a lot of whom do public programs/shows like I do.
 

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I appreciate all the feedback I've received from this group, some very good points have been brought to light.

I just spoke with the Curator of the State's Military Museum, he also confirmed the gun would have limited exposure and would on occasion be put on display to compliment the remembrance of a specific event, battle, person related to the gun.

I'm finding there are other options available to preserve the history and story of gun besides a museum.

Glad I joined this group.

Thanks go out to all who have taken time to respond.
 

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Glad to hear we could help! I'm sure I can speak for many in that we would love to be kept in the loop on what you decide, if you should so honour us :)
 
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