Gunboards Forums banner
1 - 1 of 1 Posts

·
Gold Bullet member
Joined
·
908 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
FN M1910 with kanji marking...

Len S Posted - 10/21/2006

Hi guys,
I was on the road today with some good friends hitting some out of the way gunshops.At one I spied an FN M1910 pistol.Upon examining it I dicovered a kanji to the left of the serial #.Price was very moderate so it went into the swag bag. Is this a legit marking? I've got another 1910 about 14k numbers above this one that came with capture papers and it is kanji-less.If legit what is the meaning of the character? Any input appreciated.

Thanks & best regards,
Len







----------------------------------------------

arisakadogs

Years ago I had one with this same mark. I don't remember the S/N, but probably have photos of it somewhere. It had the black grips & wasn't as nice as yours.
----------------------------------------------
seinen

The kanji character reads "dai" or "o" and translates literally as "large" or "big." To me, it's hard to tell the intended meaning from only this single character.

C/
----------------------------------------------

Nagoya10

A few years back, before I got involved in Japanese weapons, a gun shop I frequent had a Browning 1910, with an obvious Japanese holster and spare mag, with a kanji "na" (the Nagoya type mark) stamped to the rear of the ejection port. I almost got it but it had some light pitting and finish wear, consistent with jungle type use. At the time I was more interested in German stuff so passed on it. I have kicked myself ever since.
----------------------------------------------

garfield

According to Vanderlinden, The Belgian Browning Pistols, a small quantity of FN 1910s were sent to Japan before and during WWII. They were in the 450,000 serial # range, and up. They are distinquished by a kanji stamp preceeding the serial #, such as found on your pistol, on the frame and barrel
---------------------------------------------

type-14

Nice find and from a quick check of a couple of references it looks fine to me as well. In MPOJ (pg 140), Fred makes the use of a Japanese Character as one of he indicators to look for to help validate that the pistol was a Foreign procurement item. And in JMCH 1893-1945 (page 286) there is a photo of a 1910 FN with the same DAI mark in the same location as yours.

Again, nice find and a good addition to any Japanese collection.
----------------------------------------------

Len S

Thanks for your comments guys, now to look for a holster!
----------------------------------------------

arisakadogs

quote:
-------------------------------
-------------------------------
Originally posted by seinen


The kanji character reads "dai" or "o" and translates literally as "large" or "big." To me, it's hard to tell the intended meaning from only this single character.

C/

--------------------------------
--------------------------------

In this case the "o" may have to do with Osaka. That's what I used to think this marking meant on the one I had.
----------------------------------------------
Franchi

In the Japanese newsletter "Banzai" July 1987 issue this marking was discussed.
.
"Stickman proof was a 1940 contract for 2500 pistols. the proofing consists of a single charactor in front and just below the serial number on the frame. The character looks like a stick man and oddly enough two different stamps have been observed. The lowest pistol observed with this charactor is 453419 and the highest is 456341. It is not believed the contract was for a solid block of pistols and that is why two different inspectors stamps were used,"
.
I have notes (personal observations, Banzai reports, Hand Cannons of Imperial Japan, Military Pistols of Japan, etc.) on the following, they are thought to be Japanese purchased because they were brought back from the war from the Pacific in Japanese made holsters, or had "take home papers", or a letter from "FN" in Belgium, or Japanese marking.
.
Japanese "stick man" range #449525 to 456341.
.
826xx unusual "A" proofs between "Patent" & "Depose" and on frame.
.
217594 with Japanese holster
.
369049 with Jap. hol., extra magazine and ammo pouch.
.
387184 with Jap. hol "FN" letter sold July 2, 1935 to a Schroeder Bros. distributor "Geco" in Hamburg Germany
.
398287 with Jap. hol.
.
409714 "FN" letter sold July 14, 1937 to Schroeder Brothers of Liege, then sold and shipped to Mr. Matsuhara of Osaka, Japan (Derby pg 220).
.
4139xx with Jap. holster, said to have been brought back by a member of General MacArthur's staff.
.
414xxx with Jap. hol.,extra mag. and ammo pouch.
.
415xxx with Jap. hol., extra mag. and ammo. pouch.
.
416111 "FN" letter sold Oct. 21 1937.
.
416738
.
416739 "FN" letter sold Oct. 21 1937.
.
420046 Sold by "FN" to Schroeder Freres
of Liege .01.11.1938.
.
435379 "FN" letter sold Nov. 2 1937.
.
448xxx Jap. hol. "FN" letter sold Nov. 1939.
.
449525 Jap. hol. Japanese stickman proof.
.
453220 Jap. hol. Jap. stickman proof.
.
453419 Jap. hol. Jap.stickman proof.
.
454005 Jap. hol. mark next to serial number, (probably stickman proof).
.
454291 Jap. hol. Jap. stickman proof.
.
456341 Jap. stickman.
.
493147 Left slide has Japanese "Mum" and large letter "A".(Note No Japanese pistols had "Mums")
.
Note: Derby "HCIJ" page 220 reports, "FN" states they did not sell pistols directly to Japan only to their agents who sold them to Japan.
Also above pistols #'s 387184, 416111, 416739, 435379 were purchased by Genschow Co. "Geco" and resold and shipped to Matsuhara in Osaka within a month after receipt.
--------
"FN" Model 1922 #26946 (No Nazi markings) in Japanese Type 94 holster picked up by U.S. GI in the Pacific.
.
"FN" Model 1906 (6.35mm) #981811 captured in the Philippines with homemade holster with snap fastener marked (made in Germany). .
#1007571 Jap. hol. Front grip strap marked "Geco".
.
#1019617 Jap. hol.

Since five of these reported 1910's went to Osaka Japan, Arisakadogs observation of the "O" relating to Osaka sounds plausible.

Gary Franchi
---------------------------------------------

Type39

Here is one of the FN M1910s with the Nagoya "na" stamps. One by the S/N (174594) & one on the barrel in front of the FN proofs. The FN proofs have been partially removed. This was written up in BANZAI a while back but the pictures didn't reproduce very well.

Cliff





----------------------------------------------

Edokko

Most likely, the general inspections department of the major arsenals did the post import inspections on these guns before being sold to officers perhaps through the Kaiko-sha (army) or Suiko-sha (navy) stores. Hence all pistols that went through the Osaka arsenal would be marked with the "O" mark and Nagoya arsenal would be the "Na" mark. I'm not sure if this "Mr.Matsubara" was working for one of the larger trading companies importing on behalf of the military or was only a importer for commercial sales. I would think the arsenal markings would be made only for military use though
--------------------------------------------

arisakadogs

Originally posted by Type39

Here is one of the FN M1910s with the Nagoya "na" stamps One by the S/N (174594) & one on the barrel in front of the FN proofs The FN proofs have been partially removed. This was written up in BANZAI a while back but the pictures didn't reproduce very well.

Cliff

Just great - now I have to get one of these!

-------
http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=189908
 
1 - 1 of 1 Posts
Top