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Diamond with Oak Clusters Bullet Member
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In the situation stated, I would politely let myself be arrested. After the charges were dismissed, the dapartment and the officer would be made miserable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Don't know if anyone saw the clip a while back of a driver who tells the officer during the stop he was armed but had a CWP but the officer drew down on the driver and arrested him. Last I heard the charges were dropped. Can't remember where it happened.
 

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Nine years ago, I was at a party in a Toledo park, about 100 yards from a district police station. We were celebrating the first anniversary of Concealed Carry in Ohio (we had cake, ice cream, and everything).

The City was contesting the ability to carry in parks at the time, although there was no state law prohibiting it and there was a state pre-emption law in place regarding firearms laws (no local law could be more restrictive than State Law. The pre-emption provision cut out a couple of assault rifle and magazine bans that a couple of the bigger and stupider Ohio cities had in place), so of course the guy who organized and promoted the party was carrying (along with about half the others there). He had a 1911A1 in a belt holster, covered by his leather jacket.

Well, of course, a female Police Sergeant walked over from the station with her fresh-out-of-the-police-academy partner. The Sergeant asked the organizer if she could see his pistol.

When he unholstered it to hand to her, she complained that it was cocked! He patiently explained to her that 'cocked and locked' is the ONLY safe way to carry a 1911. I don't believe she was convinced in the least.

The entire time she had the firearm, she held it between her thumb and forefinger like it was a dirty diaper, and needed help finding the serial number for her report (it wasn't on the bottom, like on her Sig, so she was totally lost). She wrote him up a ticket and gave him a court date (the entire reason for the party in the first place), and returned his firearm to him. They then left.

Interesting that she was either unaware of, or chose to ignore, at least a half dozen other individuals who, to me, were obviously carrying as well.

The BEST thing happened about a half-hour later when the Sergeant's 'partner' showed up at the party and apologized for his presence there. They 'made him come along'. He stated that he knew that the carry permit holders were not any kind of a problem, and with the situation in the city and in the police department, he stated his belief that one of the people carrying that day at that party could possibly save his life during some future incident.

I always figured that by the time someone made Sergeant in a police department, they would know at least a LITTLE bit about firearms they are likely to encounter on the street. This one OBVIOUSLY didn't.

For this reason, when my Daughter-in-law decided to go into Law Enforcement, I made SURE she could identify and properly handle and shoot as many handguns she would be likely to encounter as I could. At present, she works part-time for two small town police forces, and since they don't issue weapons for budgetary reasons, she is currently carrying one of my ex-police trade-in Glocks on a daily basis.
 

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Don't know if anyone saw the clip a while back of a driver who tells the officer during the stop he was armed but had a CWP but the officer drew down on the driver and arrested him. Last I heard the charges were dropped. Can't remember where it happened.
If we are thinking about the same situation, it was in Inverness, (Citrus County) FL.

A Citrus County Deputy Sheriff stopped a guy for a traffic violation and as the guy reached back into his truck to get his license/registration, his shirt-tail came up and exposed the butt of his pistol...

If my memory serves me correctly, the deputy arrested the guy for "brandishing" his weapon, even tho it was accidentally done as the guy reached back into his truck...

The charges were later dropped...

Seems to me that the Florida Legislature then considered a bill to the effect that an "accidental" showing could not be considered "brandishing" your weapon... Don't know if the bill became law or not...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I always figured that by the time someone made Sergeant in a police department, they would know at least a LITTLE bit about firearms they are likely to encounter on the street. This one OBVIOUSLY didn't.

You would think so but in my 30 years with the Metro Dade Police Dept. I have seen some Sergeants and even Lt's do some pretty stupid things, not only about firearm safety but just poor personal skills. Interpersonal skills and common sense is sometimes none existent in some Supervisors, sad but true.

tojack

That may be the same case. I do remember the driver saying while holding his hands up that he had a valid CCW permit but was arrested anyway. I have also heard of cases where some officers across the nation don't know about HR 218, the Federal conceal carry law for retired officers. I have heard of at least a couple of cases where the firearms were confiscated from vacationing officers only to be returned later once the shit hit the fan.
 

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Interpersonal skills and common sense is sometimes none existent in some Supervisors, sad but true.
Yep... classic example of "the peter principle"... promote the guy 'cause he can't do the job... it's better to have him screwing up his fellow employees rather than have him out dealing with the general public...
 

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Carry the laws with you ... Many LEO are as totally ignorant about the laws as some of the less than brilliant anti-gun fanatics. When confronted with the unfamiliar, they tend to make it up as they go, with the puffed out chest and bravado of the badge. As retired LEO, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about! Find a sensible one with some smarts and maybe he/she will defer to the Sgt. or shift super, who may be even less informed and clueless and it can spiral upwards from there.

As a retired LEO, I have my Retired Police Officer carry permit and do carry with the required permit, official Department Retired ID and badge, as required by HR218.
I also keep a printed copy of HR218, state statutes, and even state statutes from any other state I may be traveling through.
Although never confronted by the clueless, if you don't know or understand the law ...here it is ... read it!
BTW: Also carry copies of your retired and recent "qualifications". I have heard stories of RPOs being harassed by the clueless over not having their "qualifications" readily available.
That does not make a lot of sense as in order to renew your RPO permit, you have to submit your "qualifications" twice a year and obviously have or they wouldn't be renewing your permit. That still does not make the uninformed and clueless from making an issue of it.

The "paperwork" does not take up that much room in the glove box although the envelope grows thick but...
If it's late a night and I have to argue some legal point with a clueless LEO, I would rather have it readily available in black and white to lay before them rather than being detained for hours until they can wake up some legal eagle who actually does know and understand the law. You know how that cluster can evolve!
Getting involved in a battle of words can be as futile as arguing gun control with an anti-gun fanatic! Have it in writing and have it with you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
CB

I totally agree with you as I always carry my Police retired ID, badge, gun permit and a prayer that a knuckle head who thinks he or she knows it all and believes I made up and printed the HR 218 regs. will not cross my path. Talking about clue less about gun laws, shortly before I retied in 06 two detectives in my bureau overheard my conversation regarding my Thompson sub machine gun. Both guys came to me and actually asked me if it was legal to own a machine gun! I had to do the whole explanation on how to apply with ATF for an NFA weapon. They had no idea and yet they were not rookies either. These two guys had no clue and thanked me for the learning experience.
 
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