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· Platinum Bullet Member
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought this today at the NGD show in Louisville. I know the brass keepers are awol that hold the rod in place. The top of the barrel has a script cursive LTS over a banner shape but someone then hand stamped H.M. GILMORE VANDERBILT PENNA> partially over the end of the banner. The muzzle end is also stamped with the calibre. The lock plate is marked T. KETLAND & Co. The bore is excellent with no pitting..shallow rifling. Any feedback is welcome. The owner said it had come out of Tennessee.
 
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Interesting piece. More and better photos will help a lot. What are the initials in cursive in the barrel to the left of the stamped in "Gilmore"? These will/should shed light on the maker. The "Gilmore/Penna. is most probably an owner, and definately has nothing to do with the maker. I've never seen the calibre stamped on the muzzle like that. Bet you Gilmore probably did it....he seems to have been "Punch Happy" with his dies! According to my records there was no H.M.Gilmore engaged in building flint longrifles. Could have been, but you can be almost 100% assured that Gilmore was not the maker....bet on an owner. John Gilmore operated in Texas in the 1870's-80's, and Jerome Gilmore operated in Louisiana in the 1850's-60's, but both of these were makers of percussion pieces, not flintlocks.

IMO it's definately a Southern piece, but I think I see more southwest Virginia in it than Tennessee. Possibly very eastern Tennessee or even possibly the very western tip of North Carolina. The buttplate suggests a N.C. piece, but we're splitting hairs here! All the same area, so what the heck! Whatcha take for it? (big grin)!.....hope you don't mess with it trying to clean/repair it! Is the barrel swamped? Almost looks like it in the full view photo, but can't tell for sure. Is it rifled or smooth? More photos, please! What you could very well have is a "Southern Blend" (kinda like mixing white likker and bonded likker togather...BIG GRIN). In other words, someone took a barrel off one piece, a buttplate off another, the Ketland lock (good locks in that time period), made a stock and put it all togather. It's a simple Southern piece....no patchbox or even a grease hole. TP should have more and better comments. He'll be along shortly, I bet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
one more pic

I jjust flipped the pic to the top of the barrel..the cursive is hard to read but looks like L T S. It is rifled and very shallow. The barrel is swamped. Thanks for the feed back. The two screws that are on the left side opposite the lock work are brass and added by the guy I bought it from. I paid $650 for it.
 

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Woodsy, I certainly do not know more than you, your knowledge far exceeds mine when it comes to longrifles. For example, I agree with your feelings about the influences used by the maker for this gun. In this case, I think that our friend "Gilmore" may have been a Pennsylvania maker after all and he worked in the '60s - the 1960s. Sorry coneten, better and more detailed photos might very well prove me wrong and I hope they will. :sorry:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Right now I am trying to find out more about the Gilmores of Vanderbilt, PA. I agree about Mr. Gilmore being "punch" drunk and his engraving leaves something to be desired but that might be something to look at more closely. Two interesting notes..the Penna. abbreviation (used on license plates till 1957) and the spelling of calibre instead of caliber. What is with the four sixty thing anyway? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/6546401323/
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
A few more pics

I really appreciate the subtle contours in the wrist and off set comb. Looking into the thimbles and flathead period correct screws..thanks Indiuky! I also found some interesting reading on Google books, The Pennsylvania - Kentucky Rifle by Henry J. Kaufman
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Sorry to dredge up an old post but I think this info might be good on my flinter.
GILMORE, Howard — Dickerson Run, Fayette Co., Penna. Maker of
hunting rifles of good workmanship, with curly maple stocks oval patch boxes. Barrels of own make stamped with his name on top: mostly Leman locks. Born about 1900 and "still works
some at the trade."
 

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My grandfather, Howard Martin Gilmore, moved to Sheridan, Wyoming (chasing elk) and opened a shop there. I spent numerous hours watching him in the Pennsylvania gun shop as well. Being very sentimental, I thought to buy the house and shop when it came up for sale a couple years ago. He got better and better as the years went buy, my dad says. Always used curly maple. My paternal grandfather gave him a large curly maple stump taken from the farm and my grandfather had it planked. There were still planks left when he moved to Wyoming. My aunt managed to get all the shop contents but for all I know there were still planks left. I am desperate for info and to find a gun for sale.
 

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Not sure what has become of Coneten, since he hasn't posted anything for about a year now. While the focus of this forum often tends to lean towards the how to shoot, how to fix, and what is it? topics, it's especially exciting for your inquiry to appear, piecing together the work of your grandfather. I'll be following this closely as it progresses. You may want to send him a PM to determine if he still has this rifle.

As for the rifle mentioned here, I've got nothing much to add about it, except that the Ketlands moved to the US from England after the Revolutionary War. The Ketland family was well-known in Birmingham, England for producing muskets and pistols for private sales to British Officers, and also fowlers for hunters and landowners. As Gilmore used largely Leman locks, it would be interesting to know if the Ketland was a new lock, or maybe recycled from previous use.
 
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