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Has anyone actually done one of these and could you please give some detailed info on this? I know all Nagants are different but, what did you do to get it to work in your gun?
Steve
Steve
Fitting a .32 ACP cylinder?
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25 Posts
From what I have heard most just drop in without problems. I just ordered one & will post what I find out sometime next week.
One thing I do know, When I have converted Cap & Balls to Cartridge always try to do ANY modification to the cylinder not the gun. Or at least buy a back up set of the timing arm/cyl lock. Any changes to the gun will void collectibility and preclude restoring back to original..
One thing I do know, When I have converted Cap & Balls to Cartridge always try to do ANY modification to the cylinder not the gun. Or at least buy a back up set of the timing arm/cyl lock. Any changes to the gun will void collectibility and preclude restoring back to original..
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36,347 Posts
Why?
32 S&W Long shoots just as well, costs about the same as 32 ACP and needs no mods.
32 S&W Long shoots just as well, costs about the same as 32 ACP and needs no mods.
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39 Posts
Are you saying that the original cylinders will shoot .32 Longs without problems?
I bought a cyl. around 10yrs. ago and back then they were advertised as "drop in" well maybe in some guns yes or there different now but mine wasn't drop in. I however did not do the work myself but farmed it out to a now defunct gunshop and the "smith" said it he never did one before and at the time Nagants were just starting to get on the surplus scene. I remember the shop calling me and saying the gun was done and when I arrived they brought it out and it wouldn't index and they commented as saying it worked fine and then set it down for a while than it wouldn't. So back in the back it went and he fooled with it somemore and finanly got it 100% correct. What he did I believe was file down the pin that keeps the cyl in and file the notches on the back of the new cyl. The old cyl still worked fine after all that as well.
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Thanks, first logical answer to this question. I'm having the same problems as your gunsmith and have found the same type of alteration is nessasary. The cylinder doesn't want to go forward(at the end of hammer travel) to lock the cylinder in forward position. I don't want to remove any metal from the center pin but, may hone the hole in the middle of the cylinder? These things(new cylinders) are awful rough!
Steve
Steve
Steve-On my cylinder pin where it begins to bottle neck from that point to the end mine measures about 3 eights of an inch so if you measure yours stock from that point it kind of give you an idea how much my gunsmith took of to get it to work. Now I am not saying that in your case on your gun that would work but it kind of gives you an idea. Hope this can help. By the way the pin seems to have been smoothed down some taking the original blueing off I don't believe other than filing the the notches at the back of the cylinder anything else was done to it the cylinder I mean.
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Thanks, I think what I'll try is to see if there is a shoulder inside the cylinder center bore about that depth in my original cylinder and the new one? If there is a difference, I'll hone the new one to what the original has? I greatly appreciate your help in this matter.
Steve
Steve
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39 Posts
Has he reduced it in diameter or just polished it on the bottleneck end? What does the bottleneck end measure in diameter?
Steve
Steve
Steve- Yesterday I gave you measurements with a tape measure. I have hunted around for my caliper and found my standard inch is broken so I have to give you the rest in metrics-(sorry).-the diameter of the bottleneck where the notch in the side is,is 5mm. It has been polished. The last stage of the pin like the capsule on a rocket the completely round part is 3.5mm polished piece also. The length of that last stage of that pin the little round end is 2mm and when the gunsmith cut it down it is not perfect so 2mm is give or take but not 3mm.The diameter of the pin up to the bottle neck is 8.5mm from the start to even gradually where it's lost the blueing(polished). The overall length of the whole pin is 61.5mm. in metrics.-good luck! P.s.- I don't have a way to post pictures.-sorry.
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25 Posts
I just installed my 32 ACP
1st off let me say that I also tried the 32 S&W long route but ended up with a LOT of split cases.. They are too small in diameter to work well.... Certainly NOT safe IMHO... It would make more sense to reload the 7.62 Nagant rounds using a 32-20 die. There are great instructions on the web at the following makarov sight.
http://www.makarov.com/nagant/m1895.htm
To the point though. I just got my 32acp cylinder from J&G noting right off that it would not index well on 4 of 7 cylinders. It seems the cylinder was not rotating quite enough and needed a tweak to set the pawl to turn next round up so I started by stoning the back center of the cylinder with a diamond hone to allow the pawl to drop in a touch earlier. This helped on all but one. That one was binding just a bit before going into station. I realized the bind was the cylinder stop at the bottom of the frame. Again I stoned the edge of the cylinder to remove some machine burrs on the index points and it now works very well. It sticks occasionally at that same cylinder but I feel a bit of working in will take care of the binding. It's the same spot every time but now only occurs once in awhile.
If while pulling the hammer, I release it slightly then pull fully back it will set properly indicating to me it's just a touch tight still. But rather than remove too much I will try awhile to allow it to "wear in".
(ALL changes were made to the cylinder NOT the pistol... You do not want to alter anything in the frame as there is no going back if you do...)
Dry firing provides better results than slowly allowing action to rotate by hand & shooting even better..
I also ordered the LEE 32-20 reloading dies and plan to shoot reloaded 32-20 brass in the original cylinder mostly anyway but I also reload 32acp & felt it worth the effort to try the cylinder which in my opinion is a viable effort.
I do not suggest using S&W 32 long. They do NOT fit properly. The split cases are a large bright RED FLAG..!...I have heard of wrapping tape around them with better results, & that's better than nothing I suppose, so if you must shoot them try that.. But read up on the websites for more on this...
Anyway, In summary, The 32 acp cylinder needs only minor stoning & smoothing to work fairly well but I think reloading 32-20 cases per the results on above website is a better alternative to cheap & fun shooting. The website offers load data for the 32acp brass, 32-20 brass & even a snakeshot load so is worth a look in any case.
Hope this provides answers you need, "DOC" Jim R
1st off let me say that I also tried the 32 S&W long route but ended up with a LOT of split cases.. They are too small in diameter to work well.... Certainly NOT safe IMHO... It would make more sense to reload the 7.62 Nagant rounds using a 32-20 die. There are great instructions on the web at the following makarov sight.
http://www.makarov.com/nagant/m1895.htm
To the point though. I just got my 32acp cylinder from J&G noting right off that it would not index well on 4 of 7 cylinders. It seems the cylinder was not rotating quite enough and needed a tweak to set the pawl to turn next round up so I started by stoning the back center of the cylinder with a diamond hone to allow the pawl to drop in a touch earlier. This helped on all but one. That one was binding just a bit before going into station. I realized the bind was the cylinder stop at the bottom of the frame. Again I stoned the edge of the cylinder to remove some machine burrs on the index points and it now works very well. It sticks occasionally at that same cylinder but I feel a bit of working in will take care of the binding. It's the same spot every time but now only occurs once in awhile.
If while pulling the hammer, I release it slightly then pull fully back it will set properly indicating to me it's just a touch tight still. But rather than remove too much I will try awhile to allow it to "wear in".
(ALL changes were made to the cylinder NOT the pistol... You do not want to alter anything in the frame as there is no going back if you do...)
Dry firing provides better results than slowly allowing action to rotate by hand & shooting even better..
I also ordered the LEE 32-20 reloading dies and plan to shoot reloaded 32-20 brass in the original cylinder mostly anyway but I also reload 32acp & felt it worth the effort to try the cylinder which in my opinion is a viable effort.
I do not suggest using S&W 32 long. They do NOT fit properly. The split cases are a large bright RED FLAG..!...I have heard of wrapping tape around them with better results, & that's better than nothing I suppose, so if you must shoot them try that.. But read up on the websites for more on this...
Anyway, In summary, The 32 acp cylinder needs only minor stoning & smoothing to work fairly well but I think reloading 32-20 cases per the results on above website is a better alternative to cheap & fun shooting. The website offers load data for the 32acp brass, 32-20 brass & even a snakeshot load so is worth a look in any case.
Hope this provides answers you need, "DOC" Jim R
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2,114 Posts
Hi 1861 Sniper,
Please re-read your source for the 32-20 die dies info!
The Nagant will NOT take 32-20 cases as made new!
The fellows RESIZE the (32-20)cases in M-1 Carbine die! They do use 32-20 CASES but they are REFORMED! this combo works well too.
(there is a slight taper/shoulder on the 32-20 that has to be ironed out.)
Other guys have bored the chambers on the "32 ACP REPLACMENT" cylinder to 32-20 then, you can shoot a real 32-20 in the revolver.
Good luck,
point6
Please re-read your source for the 32-20 die dies info!
The Nagant will NOT take 32-20 cases as made new!
The fellows RESIZE the (32-20)cases in M-1 Carbine die! They do use 32-20 CASES but they are REFORMED! this combo works well too.
(there is a slight taper/shoulder on the 32-20 that has to be ironed out.)
Other guys have bored the chambers on the "32 ACP REPLACMENT" cylinder to 32-20 then, you can shoot a real 32-20 in the revolver.
Good luck,
point6
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39 Posts
NONONO, the Lee dies form Nagant brass from 32/20 brass? Check Midway USA.
Steve
Steve
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2,114 Posts
.. Quote..
I also ordered the LEE 32-20 reloading dies and plan to shoot reloaded 32-20 brass in the original cylinder mostly
Hi Steve,
I just read what was written by 1861 sniper.
I hope the dies he ordered work well for him!
I'm a a happy camper with my second hand set of M-1 carbine dies.
Some Nagant reloaders had a problem with the early sets Lee was selling.
The seating stem was not correct.
All the best to you.
point6
I also ordered the LEE 32-20 reloading dies and plan to shoot reloaded 32-20 brass in the original cylinder mostly
Hi Steve,
I just read what was written by 1861 sniper.
I hope the dies he ordered work well for him!
I'm a a happy camper with my second hand set of M-1 carbine dies.
Some Nagant reloaders had a problem with the early sets Lee was selling.
The seating stem was not correct.
All the best to you.
point6
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25 Posts
Per your posts, The 32-20 dies I got were actually LEE 32 Nagant dies but the dies are 'marked' 32-20 on the body. Lee finally got around to altering the 32-20 die and packaged them as Nagant revolver dies. They do not have load data on the enclosed docs, but otherwise are made to reload the 32-20/32 Nagant brass. The only thing they require is to reduce the bullet seating shaft to 0.308" IF you want to recess the bullets. This is indicated in the nagant reloading page I posted earlier..
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39 Posts
Could someone, please give this information and possibly post some pictures of what your doing to fit one of these cylinders? I didn't intend this post to be about reloading?
Steve
Steve
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2,114 Posts
Hi Steve,
Sorry about the post about the dies, just tried to help out.
I have seen some posts on other boards that mention shorting the keyed sleeve inside the center of the cylinder where the spring is. (back end /wide end)
A few fellows noticed a small amount of over all size variation from sleeve to sleeve. .005/.010
The shorter sleeve seems to make most of the conversion cylinders work perfectly. The thought is if the sleeve is a tad too long, the cylinder cannot go foward enough to allow the hand to carry up properly.
If you try to shortning it, I cannot see where it will be any type of problem as it is spring loaded anyway. Just run it over a fine file & keep it flat. Measure before & after.
Go slowly & fit it a few times, deburr & cold blue.
I think a replacment cost me $8 from Mark K.
I found it was a pain to keep switching the original cylinder apart to convert to the 32 ACP.cylinder.
Best of luck,
point6
Sorry about the post about the dies, just tried to help out.
I have seen some posts on other boards that mention shorting the keyed sleeve inside the center of the cylinder where the spring is. (back end /wide end)
A few fellows noticed a small amount of over all size variation from sleeve to sleeve. .005/.010
The shorter sleeve seems to make most of the conversion cylinders work perfectly. The thought is if the sleeve is a tad too long, the cylinder cannot go foward enough to allow the hand to carry up properly.
If you try to shortning it, I cannot see where it will be any type of problem as it is spring loaded anyway. Just run it over a fine file & keep it flat. Measure before & after.
Go slowly & fit it a few times, deburr & cold blue.
I think a replacment cost me $8 from Mark K.
I found it was a pain to keep switching the original cylinder apart to convert to the 32 ACP.cylinder.
Best of luck,
point6
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39 Posts
Thanks, I'll try that.
Steve
Steve
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12 Posts
.32 acp from jg sales
Steve,
I bought and installed a .32 acp cylinder from JG Sales and it works fine in 2 out of the three Nagants I tried it in. I will try to post the pics of my 2 nagants the one with the .32 acp (1932)cylinder and the one that it would not work in. (1930 bought from a gunsmith) The 3rd Nagant belongs to a friend of mine and is a 1936 and it worked just fine in his. The 2 it worked in were from AIM Surplus. I hope this helps.
Steve,
I bought and installed a .32 acp cylinder from JG Sales and it works fine in 2 out of the three Nagants I tried it in. I will try to post the pics of my 2 nagants the one with the .32 acp (1932)cylinder and the one that it would not work in. (1930 bought from a gunsmith) The 3rd Nagant belongs to a friend of mine and is a 1936 and it worked just fine in his. The 2 it worked in were from AIM Surplus. I hope this helps.
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