[mwt]

Acquired my first 91/30 last week in the form of a barreled action still full of grease from a board member. The stock/sling I bought from a buddy for $30. I have $145 in it.

Typical 1942 refurb I think. Numbers appear to match except for the stock obviously.

t

Had to extend the front sight to get a proper 100 yd zero. I used the rubber insulation from a small electrical wire.

I also purchased an accuracy kit from a board member, expecting that I might have bedding issues with the mismatched stock.

To my surprise the old girl shoots pretty nice just dropping it in the stock.

So not being a Mosin guy I'm wondering if this accuracy is typical of these or did I just get lucky. Also, should I install the shim kit or leave it alone. By the way, the triggerguard appeared to have some type of paper or cork shims already in place.

Regards
Marty


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[curly1]

I like to pick off clays at 100 yards including the pieces left over, never been disappointed in any of mine.

 

[mwt]

I acquired a couple of Finns prior to the 91/30. An m39 and an m27. They both shoot quite well but were shimmed by the Finns. Was not expecting the 91/30 to shoot so well.



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[Ronbo6]

What ammunition were you shooting? I need me some of that.

I do recommend you try running a dollar bill the length of the forend between the stock and the barrel just to confirm there are no tight spots. If you don't find any, I figure you are good to go.

Although the 1942 and 1943 Mosins got to looking pretty scruffy on the outside, They never scrimped on what was REALLY important (the quality of the barrel).

Even if you have no barrel/stock interference, you MIGHT be able to tighten up your groups a bit more with a barrel wrap, but I figure you should just keep your shim kit for your next one (and there probably WILL be a next one, right?).

 

[13 Colony Patriot]

I've seen marksmen not shoot that well with an M4 from 100 yards...lol....i would be happy for sure.....i would celebrate the rifle has a great barrel....and consider her a keeper....would also love to know what ammo brand and grain bullet etc you used that day? Nice pics, nice gun, nice job........thanks for posting..........

 

[mwt]

The load is nothing fancy, but it also performs well in my Finns and my SVT40.

PPU brass, 180 gr .311 Sierra Prohunter, 42.5 gr of 4064, and CCI 200 primers.

Rather mild load - also a good hunting load.

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[mwt]

So the shimming under the triggerguard was not done by the Russians? I'm guessing the previous owner of the stock may have done some things to it to improve accuracy. Is it possible the stock spent time in Finland? Is there a way to ID a Finnish stock?


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[Ruprecht]

mwt: The Soviets did use shims between wood and triggerguard as well as between action and wood. The attached image was posted by Ol'relic a while ago and shows shimming from a Soviet perspective. Note the blue area (barrel reinforce) which this document indicates should be solidly bedded which is normal for many types of bolt-action rifle. I'm not sure if any of my numerous Finn rifles are bedded at this location. Slightly different approaches? With the accuracy you're getting I wouldn't touch anything on your rifle! A few years ago I bought a dirt cheap refurb '27 upgraded Dragoon to experiment with. It surprised me with out iof the box accuracy about like yours and no simple shimming that I tried could improve it.

Ruprecht

 

[Montana Bearbait]

mwt: The Soviets did use shims between wood and triggerguard as well as between action and wood. The attached image was posted by Ol'relic a while ago and shows shimming from a Soviet perspective. Note the blue area (barrel reinforce) which this document indicates should be solidly bedded which is normal for many types of bolt-action rifle. I'm not sure if any of my numerous Finn rifles are bedded at this location. Slightly different approaches? With the accuracy you're getting I wouldn't touch anything on your rifle! A few years ago I bought a dirt cheap refurb '27 upgraded Dragoon to experiment with. It surprised me with out iof the box accuracy about like yours and no simple shimming that I tried could improve it.

Ruprecht

Great shooting mwt!

Ruprecht, On my ordinary, non-collector grade 91/30 Mosins, I've installed the shims and in the blue area, a thin strip of automotive gasket cork.
Some got the barrel wrap, others preferred a 1" piece of the same cork under the barrel, right at the end of the stock.
The result has been to tighten up the groups on each rifle.

 

[Ruprecht]

Montana Bearbait: What surprised me about my '27 was that, as refurbed, the barrel appeared to be a close fit along the entire channel (ie no float)- not an easy thing to do. In this form it shot easy 2" groups over a sandbag. I then tried all sorts of combinations of front and rear shims, with and without barrel wrap but never really matched its original accuracy. As a final, permanent alteration, I removed enough wood from the channel to get a good float while making sure I had very solid bearing in the blue area (barrel reinforce). With full float right to the barrel tip (handguard too) the first 5 shot group with my Lead sled was around 1.25" but included 3 almost on top of one another. I need to get it back to the range and keep playing with it. By the way, I believe the translation of the text on that diagram indicates that the blue bearing surface is critical and that the front red shim is primarily to avoid bending the receiver when tightening the screws.

Ruprecht

 

[Montana Bearbait]

Ruprecht, it amazes me that for such a mass produced item, these Mosins are so very individualistic. The set-up that works very well on one rifle, doesn't on the next.

 

[milprileb]

I acquired a couple of Finns prior to the 91/30. An m39 and an m27. They both shoot quite well but were shimmed by the Finns. Was not expecting the 91/30 to shoot so well.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, you should expect that if the rifle is in great condition and you can shoot rifles well. I have several 91/30's that shoot that good or better than prime time condition M39's. All these rifles can shoot that level of accuracy or better at 100yd with the right ammo.

I never tire of stating this: The Finn Mafia peddles some really heavy Kool Aid about how wonderful Finn Rifles are ( they are great rifles !) but the fact is , many 91/30's can equal or exceed M39 accuracy. Granted..91/30 rifles sights stink compared to M39 rifles sights but accuracy of both rifles can be quite wonderful.

So yeah, your rifle is a great 91/30 and can hold its own with most 30 cal. battle rifles including ...(drum roll) any Finn M39.

I just looked out the front door...the Finn Mafia is parked outside watching my house...they want to get me !!

 

[Denny]

Yes, you should expect that if the rifle is in great condition and you can shoot rifles well. I have several 91/30's that shoot that good or better than prime time condition M39's. All these rifles can shoot that level of accuracy or better at 100yd with the right ammo.

I never tire of stating this: The Finn Mafia peddles some really heavy Kool Aid about how wonderful Finn Rifles are ( they are great rifles !) but the fact is , many 91/30's can equal or exceed M39 accuracy. Granted..91/30 rifles sights stink compared to M39 rifles sights but accuracy of both rifles can be quite wonderful.

So yeah, your rifle is a great 91/30 and can hold its own with most 30 cal. battle rifles including ...(drum roll) any Finn M39.

I just looked out the front door...the Finn Mafia is parked outside watching my house...they want to get me !!

Honestly Milprileb this obsession with the "Fin Mafia" just needs to end on this forum. I have never heard any member of the "Fin Mafia" state that a 91-30 eight out of the crate can't shoot well or very well. You have been stating this for over a decade now! Who has been saying this? Names please! Enough......please. Denny

 

[Ol' Relic]

mwt: The Soviets did use shims between wood and triggerguard as well as between action and wood. The attached image was posted by Ol'relic a while ago and shows shimming from a Soviet perspective. Note the blue area (barrel reinforce) which this document indicates should be solidly bedded which is normal for many types of bolt-action rifle. I'm not sure if any of my numerous Finn rifles are bedded at this location. Slightly different approaches? With the accuracy you're getting I wouldn't touch anything on your rifle! A few years ago I bought a dirt cheap refurb '27 upgraded Dragoon to experiment with. It surprised me with out iof the box accuracy about like yours and no simple shimming that I tried could improve it.

Ruprecht

The mentioned illustration is from Yur'yev's book "Sport Shooting", and outlines proposed improvements to stock fit of the M91/30 for sporting use. I added the colored coded areas to the diagram for purposes of explaining a shimming setup I was trying with a particular rifle I'd just bought.

The area where I added the blue is where Yur'yev suggests use of "gasket" to help bed the action. I've experimented in the past with bedding that area with various types of shim material, seemingly with some success, but as far as I know that area was never shimmed by the Soviet or Finnish military. In fact, I've seen some Finnish rifles on which that area had actually had material removed, seemingly to create even more space between stock and barrel.

Though it's very useful for accurizing of the 91/30, the setup suggested by Yur'yev differs from Soviet military practice (in other words standard refurb practice), and most of it won't be seen on as-imported rifles.

The Finns did often add brass shims to the two areas where I added red to the illustration, in order to float the barrel. I've observed Soviet-installed shims (sometimes brass, sometimes black finished steel) in the tang area. However, I've never observed Soviet installed shims in the area just behind the recoil lug. They did shim (again, sometimes with brass, sometimes black-finished steel) the pockets in the bottom of the stock where the front and rear tabs of the magazine/trigger guard fit (presumably to prevent the action bolts from bottoming out in their holes and/or to create the correct space between the magazine and the receiver).

Honestly Milprileb this obsession with the "Fin Mafia" just needs to end on this forum. I have never heard any member of the "Fin Mafia" state that a 91-30 eight out of the crate can't shoot well or very well. You have been stating this for over a decade now! Who has been saying this? Names please! Enough......please. Denny

It doesn't take much looking on the internet to see that there's a widespread perception that Finnish rifles are in a completely different league accuracywise to Soviet 91/30s. Look around on any Mosin website-it's everywhere.

Mind you, I'm not knocking Finns-they're fine rifles both historically and as shooters. But any accuracy advantage they hold over a Soviet 91/30 in comparable condition is incremental, not revolutionary. And I'm basing that on personal experience, not internet lore.

 

[Pahtu]

Honestly Milprileb this obsession with the "Fin Mafia" just needs to end on this forum. I have never heard any member of the "Fin Mafia" state that a 91-30 eight out of the crate can't shoot well or very well. You have been stating this for over a decade now! Who has been saying this? Names please! Enough......please. Denny

I tire of such posts as well, nowadays just shrug it off - You read of enthusiastic new Finn firearms owners who are excited to post a new treasure, but I do not recall any old or new post where a member says a Finn firearm is more accurate than a Soviet refurb. Quite frankly my Finn M91s are no more accurate than my other non Finn M91, same goes for the other Finn and non Finn Mn's.....Now I am going to be reloading soon for some of my 28-30s, just to see how well they do, but have no great expectations for rifles that were kinda worn 70 some years ago....

Pahtu.

 

[Montana Bearbait]

Honestly Milprileb this obsession with the "Fin Mafia" just needs to end on this forum. I have never heard any member of the "Fin Mafia" state that a 91-30 eight out of the crate can't shoot well or very well. You have been stating this for over a decade now! Who has been saying this? Names please! Enough......please. Denny

It may not be a "Fin Mafia" but you can not reasonably deny that there isn't a "Fin Cheerleading Squad" here. Just look at the logo chosen for the t-shirts sponsoring the gunboards...

 

[Denny]

The mentioned illustration is from Yur'yev's book "Sport Shooting", and outlines proposed improvements to stock fit of the M91/30 for sporting use. I added the colored coded areas to the diagram for purposes of explaining a shimming setup I was trying with a particular rifle I'd just bought.

The area where I added the blue is where Yur'yev suggests use of "gasket" to help bed the action. I've experimented in the past with bedding that area with various types of shim material, seemingly with some success, but as far as I know that area was never shimmed by the Soviet or Finnish military. In fact, I've seen some Finnish rifles on which that area had actually had material removed, seemingly to create even more space between stock and barrel.

Though it's very useful for accurizing of the 91/30, the setup suggested by Yur'yev differs from Soviet military practice (in other words standard refurb practice), and most of it won't be seen on as-imported rifles.

The Finns did often add brass shims to the two areas where I added red to the illustration, in order to float the barrel. I've observed Soviet-installed shims (sometimes brass, sometimes black finished steel) in the tang area. However, I've never observed Soviet installed shims in the area just behind the recoil lug. They did shim (again, sometimes with brass, sometimes black-finished steel) the pockets in the bottom of the stock where the front and rear tabs of the magazine/trigger guard fit (presumably to prevent the action bolts from bottoming out in their holes and/or to create the correct space between the magazine and the receiver).

It doesn't take much looking on the internet to see that there's a widespread perception that Finnish rifles are in a completely different league accuracywise to Soviet 91/30s. Look around on any Mosin website-it's everywhere.

Mind you, I'm not knocking Finns-they're fine rifles both historically and as shooters. But any accuracy advantage they hold over a Soviet 91/30 in comparable condition is incremental, not revolutionary. And I'm basing that on personal experience, not internet lore.

Ol' Relic, My post is only directed to one persons statements about Russian vs. Finnish accuracy on this forum and not what is being stated every where else on the web on any web
site. Once again I ask who is making this claim on this forum? Denny

It may not be a "Fin Mafia" but you can not reasonably deny that there isn't a "Fin Cheerleading Squad" here. Just look at the logo chosen for the t-shirts sponsoring the gunboards...

Pet_My Mosin ran the last T-shirt run (I think it was the last one), and I believe she had a thread where people could request or vote on the designs for the T-Shirts. T-shirts aside, Cheerleaders would be nice on the forum Denny

 

[Denny]

mwt, Thanks for the pics of your rifle and the time you took to share your new rifle. I apologize for side tracking your thread. Denny

 

[upnorth69]

Hi

Of course russian/soviet made M91 can shoot as well if not better than finnish made M39s or M28/30. I think the difference is more in the consistency. While many M91 are very accurate, most M39 are very accurate

Not a member of the finn mob myself, by the way

 

[mwt]

Thanks guys, it has been an educational discussion for me. Being a Mosin neophyte-I'm primarily a Mauser guy-it did seem like Finns were held in higher esteem accuracy wise by the Mosin crowd.

What I've gleaned from this discussion is that Russian rifles have equal potential, and in fact many live up to that potential, however it appears the Finns worked harder to bring all their rifles to their full potential.

Swedish Mausers are a similar case in point. Rarely does one find one that does not shoot well.


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