[phatrick88]

Looking to get a WWII 42-45 M1 Carbine and have a few quick questions.

First. Why are non-imports so much more desireable than imports? Some people go so far as to say they wouldn't even buy an import. It's not like it's any different besides having a little stamp on it? People seem especially repugnant toward the blue sky imports. Is it worth paying a $100-200 more for a non-import that's in similiar shape to one with import marks?

Second. How do I know if i'm getting a gun with USGI parts? I understand the basic markings, like W for Windchester or N for NPM, but I see lots of ads and parts have markings like "H1 hammer, RI sear, UN bolt" and aren't sure what that means. Short of buying a book, is there a good internet reference what will teach me about this stuff?

Last. How can I tell the difference between an M1 and M2 stock? If I find an M1 that has a later M2 stock, is that a bad thing per se or less desireable, or have most been switched over by now?

 

[Snowman]

M1 Carbine

Hello Phatrick88. Most people don't like the import marks because they affect the "collector value." IE. It didn't have that mark when it left the factory. So if given a choice, I'd pay more for a non-import. I haven't heard anything good about Blue Sky Imports. I've been told that they sell JUNK! Like anything in life though, opinions vary. Most GI parts have markings on them, depending on what factory they came from. Some dealers will let you field strip a weapon before purchase, some won't! You can learn a great deal from this board but you should really buy a book! "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" by Craig Rilsch(?Spelling),North Cape Productions, $19.95. This book breaks down all the parts and their markings. You can tell an M2 stock by it's "fat" or pot-bellied forearm. The M1 has a slim or narrow forearm. The fatter stock was made to hold up to the Full auto of the M2. Many carbines got these stocks when they were "overhauled." Its not really a bad thing, mostly a personal preference. The bayonet lug was also added during the overhaul. A carbine from 42 to 45 wouldn't have one of these! I'm sure there's someone on here that knows more. Hope this helps.

 

[Rick the Librarian2]

I agree that Craig Reitsch's book is a good investment. You can easily lose a LOT more than $19.95 on a carbine (or any other military firearm) if you don't know the facts. In my opinion, Blue Sky (or any other import) needs to be evaluated like any firearm - correctness, condition, etc. While the percentage of nice Blue Sky rifles may be less than non-imports, there are some nice ones out there, too.

 

[BradB]

The only "textbook" complete Irwin Pederson carbine I ever saw had an import mark on the barrel. In this case, it was another element of authenticity to be considered with even wear on parts, finish, stock and hg, etc. Carbines that stayed overseas immediately after WWII and were imported in the late 80s are many times substantially more correct and original than ones that stayed here and went through multiple arsenal rebuilds. Evaluate each gun one at a time as Rick said.

 

[El Bibliotecario]

Looking to get a WWII 42-45 M1 Carbine and have a few quick questions.

"...Short of buying a book, is there a good internet reference what will teach me about this stuff?"

God forbid that anyone should buy a book in this age of the internet.

Last. How can I tell the difference between an M1 and M2 stock?QUOTE]

The M2 stock has a relief cut on the left of the receiver for the selector switch.

 

[Sarge]

There is also no reinforcing wood across the front of the trigger guard on the inside of the stock. This is much more noticable than the selector lever cut.
Not all M2 stocks are pot belly!
There was no problems that I can remember hearing about with Blue Sky carbine imports. It was with the Garands where they seem to have stamped the import marks on the bbl with a punch press - end result was front of bbl out of round on some. If you got one of these BS would accept return of the rifle or replace the bbl - IF you were smart enuf to complain promptly.
The later BSs had the importers mark about half as large and Not stamped with a punch press.
I was lucky, all of the BS Garands I bought did not have the bbl problem.
I personaly am not bothered by importers marks. They tell you that the Garand or Carbine was sold to and used by a friendly foriegn gov't for part of it's post WW 2 life. It's also a good bargining tool to use on the uneducated to get them to come down a bit on price!
Sarge

 

[63H20]

Harrison's books on US weapons are another excellent source of detailed info. Guess you can still find them at larger gun shows, ~6" X 8" sprial bound and easy to carry.
Will the Carbine be a shooter or collectors piece? Shooters can be had from CMP , good collector's pieces will be pricy.

 

[03man]

Most folks don't like the 'Blue Sky' carbines because they are stamped with large letters and usually very deeply. Many nefarious types prefer the lightly stamped imports, so they can remove the markings.

The only real difference, IMHO, between an import marked and non marked carbine is the price, and of course the marking.

 

[Fatelk]

I've had my Blue Sky carbine for nearly two decades. I know it's not collectible, but it shoots great and I wouldn't trade it for a nice one (only because it was my first surplus rifle). I paid $120 for it. The stock was rotten and I replaced it with a repaired one I got cheap at a show.

Speaking of deep import stampings; the "BLUE SKY" stamp on mine is really deep on the left side of the barrel, and in order to shoot straight, the windage on the rear sight has to be almost all the way to the left. It shoots good so I've often wondered if they bent the barrel ever so slightly when they beat that mark into it.

 

[Swampy]

Speaking of deep import stampings; the "BLUE SKY" stamp on mine is really deep on the left side of the barrel, and in order to shoot straight, the windage on the rear sight has to be almost all the way to the left. It shoots good so I've often wondered if they bent the barrel ever so slightly when they beat that mark into it.

I have heard of some Blue Sky rifles that were stamped so hard that the indents could be seen on the INSIDE of the bore.

Not good for certain.

There are SOME good Blue Sky rifles out there.... a buddy has a Blue Sky M1 rifle he bought way back when. It's pretty nice looking and a decent shooter.

Best to all,
Swampy

Garands forever

 

[Orlando]

The Blue Sky Imports carbines came from Korea and for the most part were pretty worn out. I bought one in the 1980's for $150.00, it looked good (had be refinished probably by the importer) but would shoot around corners, muzzle wear of 5 . A few years ago I bought a barrel for it, now its a nice shooter. As already said import or not they all need to be inspected for wear

 

[Cleitus]

Heck, some people have had "issues" with those Eytie CMP carbines coming in. I sold 4 carbines(non Imports) this past year and have kept Only one. My favorite which is a Arlington Ord stamped import from Korea(very light stamp) with a nice SA marked M2 pot belly stock(no worries about cracking Those stocks). It is late Second War Winchester receiver with a MInt Winchester marked barrel. Trigger group and Front sight are Underwood. Very accurate carbine.

 

[Edward Tinker]

From a collectors point of view, an import will rise in value much slower than a non-import marked rifle or pistol.


So, given the opportunity between a couple of hundred bucks, I would take a non-import. However, if looking for a "shooter", an import is the smarter way to go and in actuality my sense of history says that the import marking is just part of its history.


Ed

 

[cadillacmike]

Clarification

Just a clarification here Snowman: ALL Carbines were made from 1942-1945. This is in contrast to M1 Rifles which were made until 1957. The Carbines did however undergo extensive rebuild and modification programs which is where the got the pot belly stocks and the bayonet lugs. Personally I'm looking for on with the bayonet lug, otherwise i wouldn't be able to mount the M4 bayonet i bought! I'm waiting for CMP to get some secent IBM or GM (Inland or Saginaw) ones out for sale.

Hello Phatrick88. Most people don't like the import marks because they affect the "collector value." IE. It didn't have that mark when it left the factory. So if given a choice, I'd pay more for a non-import. I haven't heard anything good about Blue Sky Imports. I've been told that they sell JUNK! Like anything in life though, opinions vary. Most GI parts have markings on them, depending on what factory they came from. Some dealers will let you field strip a weapon before purchase, some won't! You can learn a great deal from this board but you should really buy a book! "U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production" by Craig Rilsch(?Spelling),North Cape Productions, $19.95. This book breaks down all the parts and their markings. You can tell an M2 stock by it's "fat" or pot-bellied forearm. The M1 has a slim or narrow forearm. The fatter stock was made to hold up to the Full auto of the M2. Many carbines got these stocks when they were "overhauled." Its not really a bad thing, mostly a personal preference. The bayonet lug was also added during the overhaul. A carbine from 42 to 45 wouldn't have one of these! I'm sure there's someone on here that knows more. Hope this helps.

 

[campperrykid]

Books?
My suggestion for an excellent first book ( or maybe only book ) would be:
'The M1 Owner's Guide' by Larry L. Ruth with Scott Duff. The ISBN on my copy is :
ISBN 1-888722-09-6

I wish I had bought the Ruth & Duff book first , but I wasted money & time on a useless POS from some proto-barfcom bubba.

The reprinted manual from CMP is great as well -- both as a authentic piece of history and as a very basic users' manual. The M1 Carbine Owner's Guide" covers a lot more info that is usefull for civilian owners today. It's available from Midway , Brownell's , Fulton , Amazon, etc.
Or:
www.scott-duff.com/DuffBooks.htm#carbine

ETA: Looks like the 2nd Edition is available. That's the one I'd get -- things have changed since 1999. Back in the day , Fulton Armory had signed copies. There's not much difference in price between new & used on Amazon.

The AGI DVD is good , too.

 

[cadillacmike]

The original Army TMs and FMs are also good sources of info. I have them, from the 50s, when my dad first enlisted. You can probably find ten on certain auction site.

 

[campperrykid]

The original Army TMs and FMs are also good sources of info. I have them, from the 50s,
... ( Snip for brevity....
.

Bill Ricca -- of New Tripoli , Pa -- has reprints of old TM's on his website. Lots of parts , tools and accessories as well . Check out the history info , too.
One way to keep the old Evil Brown Guns in good shape -- without bubba damage -- is to use the old manuals as a guide.