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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some people in the past have made a big deal out of this, and I have come to the conclusion that it really makes no dfference.

In every single Mosin I have ever tried (a lot), the extractor has to pop over the edge of the rim when closing the bolt during either method of feeding. I have yet to see a Mosin strip a cartridge from the magazine where the rim ended up under the extractor, and the cartridge is held by the bolt - until the bolt is fully closed and the extractor has had to pop over the rim.

Opinions?

Les
 

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I don't know who would think that the rim would ride under the extractor (i.e. Mauser style). The design of the bolt face makes it impossible for the rim to pass under the extractor like that. The extractor HAS to ride over the rim on bolt close. The advantage of feeding from the magazine vs. individually is rate of fire.
 

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The design of the bolt face makes it impossible for the rim to pass under the extractor like that. The extractor HAS to ride over the rim on bolt close.
The Mosin is a push-feed action, not a controlled round feed like the Mauser. I'm not sure what kind of big deal could be made, it's just the way it was designed. Seems to have worked just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The Mosin is a push-feed action, not a controlled round feed like the Mauser. I'm not sure what kind of big deal could be made, it's just the way it was designed. Seems to have worked just fine.
I'll see if I can dig up some of the things that have been said.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Here's a pretty good one that may shed some light....

From Paradad82.
The Mosin Nagant does has a controlled feed system hence the interupter, However, the extractor does jump over the case head rim during chambering. Not after a cartridge has been chambered as the OP is stating. The extractor has a groove within the chamber in which it fits and if a cartridge is in the chamber before the bolt is closed the result is the extractor will have difficulties engaging with little to no space available. Try this. Load a empty case into the chamber and close the bolt on it. YOU WILL HEAR THE EXTRACTOR CLICK LOUDLY Along with having to use extra force to lock the bolt down. You will not hear this or need extra force if the cartridge is being loaded via the magazine. Sooner or later the extractor WILL wear down quicker orbreak if it is continuously used in such a manner.

Many people interpret statements like this as "You MUST feed from the magazine" and cite the presence of the interrupter. I simply take it as you must not fully chamber the round with your finger and then close the bolt. What I am saying is that as long as the round is pushed into final place with the bolt, then I cannot see any difference. I dislike loading rounds down into the magazine when sitting at a bench, and I never worry about rate of fire.
 

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Couple of different "controlled feed"s there.
By the interrupter, down in the magazine, isn't the usual meaning of the term.
By the bolt face/extractor, as the round is being moved from the magazine to the chamber, is the normal meaning.

So no, the Mosin is not a "controlled feed" type of action. It's a "push feed"........the round will fall out if the gun is upside-down.
There is supposed to be enough room in the 'extractor groove', cut into the breech face of the barrel, for the extractor to move freely so that it can snap over the rim of a loaded cartridge fully seated in the chamber. This area is often ignored during cleaning and if full of crud will cause problems. Under the extractor in the bolt head as well.
The extractor needs to be smooth where it rides over the cartridge rim (every time), and adjusted to grip and then release the rim without too much pressure.

Think Paradad82s' rifles' extractor is not adjusted properly for him to notice a difference with a round fully chambered vs. hanging out a bit.
Gotta say that I disagree with about everything in that post.
 

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Here's a pretty good one that may shed some light....

From Paradad82.
The Mosin Nagant does has a controlled feed system hence the interupter, However, the extractor does jump over the case head rim during chambering. Not after a cartridge has been chambered as the OP is stating. The extractor has a groove within the chamber in which it fits and if a cartridge is in the chamber before the bolt is closed the result is the extractor will have difficulties engaging with little to no space available. Try this. Load a empty case into the chamber and close the bolt on it. YOU WILL HEAR THE EXTRACTOR CLICK LOUDLY Along with having to use extra force to lock the bolt down. You will not hear this or need extra force if the cartridge is being loaded via the magazine. Sooner or later the extractor WILL wear down quicker orbreak if it is continuously used in such a manner.

Many people interpret statements like this as "You MUST feed from the magazine" and cite the presence of the interrupter. I simply take it as you must not fully chamber the round with your finger and then close the bolt. What I am saying is that as long as the round is pushed into final place with the bolt, then I cannot see any difference. I dislike loading rounds down into the magazine when sitting at a bench, and I never worry about rate of fire.
Do as you will, but the Mosin is push feed so it makes absolutely no difference to the extractor.
 

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Hundreds of thousands of dead Nazis would vouch for the efficiency and reliability of the Mosin magazine feed, but they can't. No single feed required.
It worked fine in cold, wet, mud and brick dust, from Moscow and Stalingrad to the Mongolian borders.
 

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I'm probably one of the folks who made similar claims. My concern is that I constantly meet folks who have literally never, ever fired a bolt-action rifle before in their lives! This strikes me as quite a claim... Then I read of various terrible and bloody injuries--oft with digital photos--incurred by loading a cartridge into the Mosin-Nagant chamber, the user/shooter/new-to-bolt-actions-let-alone-quirky-antiquated-Mosin-Nagants then becomes distracted, returns to the rifle, and seeing no ammo in the magazine, puts another cartridge into the bolt raceway, and slams the bolt forward thereby causing cartridge 1 to be detonated by cartridge 2, which leads to both cartridges detonating out of battery, and the first cartridge generating enough pressure due to the chamber to cause flying case debris, resulting in injury...

So I tend to urge folks to use it "as directed" by which I hope they'd read the actual manual. Certainly the manual notes that if something happens to the magazine, the rifle can continue to be operated and used as a single-shot. Enjoy your Mosin-Nagant rifle! I concur with Arik... Oh, and SG too, certainly. Although the death toll ascribed to the Mosin-Nagant would be geographically much, much larger, and it would not be merely Germans... That and artillery, tanks, rockets, machine guns, bombs, cold, hunger, disease, etc. etc. ;):eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
OK - so right now we definitely have the doesn't matter crowd represented here. I pulled the following post up up from the past - and this is definitely not from a newbie to Gunboards. FYI this is the type of big deal to load from the magazine that I spoke about in my original post. I remember hearing it a lot from various people, so I started to do it early on. I finally concluded on my own, that the rim of the case does not slide up under the extractor hook as part of the Mosin design.

ALWAYS load a round from the magazine. Simply setting a round atop the magazine follower can cause massive extractor damage.

When a round is pushed forward out of the magazine by the bolt face, notice that the rim of the case slides up into place under the extractor hook. If you just place a round on the follower, or even just stuff it into the chamber, it is necessary for the extractor to forcibly spring outward and snap over the rim. Depending on the nose shape of the extractor, you may actually be able to accomplish the task. Otherwise, it's more likely to bend & collapse the extractor, necessitating removal and replacement.

The Mosin Nagant may be made with admittedly "generous" dimensional specifications, but the extractor is made to more exacting specs. I'd recommend to NEVER tamper with its' configuration or modify it in any way, unless it's already been abused or damaged & you plan to replace it.

NOW, just for giggles, lie down on your back and hold the rifle upside down in front of you. Notice that you can easily chamber a round with the action inverted - it's all due to the action of the case rim snapping into place behind the extractor hook, while feeding up & out from the magazine.
 

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Well, just to be the annoying so-called "devil's advocate" until someone passionately invested in the "magazine only" school comes along, allow me to make the following observation:

there is a dished out/scooped out area of the chamber mouth for the extractor to ride in as the bolt is turned. Perhaps some of the twist motion is what allows for the extractor claw to "snap" over the rim... I frankly don't know. But is it the case that when the cartridge case is chambered and fully seated, that the extractor claw now faces a sort of "reinforced by the chamber wall" cartridge rim, requiring just a bit more "oomph" to overcome in order to snap over the rim? Again, I don't know. Perhaps sometimes there is gunk and grease and filth in the groove, leading to problems that are then ascribed to the extractor claw?

There is also the issue of variances in ammunition. As I recall, some of the Albanian stuff was criticized as having an excessively thick rim that would cause problems.

I will say that the Mosin-Nagant magazine can be JAMMED during rapid reloads... And it is not an easy jam to clear either! I've had to drop the floor plate, dump out the cartridges that went in, and use one of them to poke a cartridge down from the top. Murphy's law in action, certainly. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
But is it the case that when the cartridge case is chambered and fully seated, that the extractor claw now faces a sort of "reinforced by the chamber wall" cartridge rim, requiring just a bit more "oomph" to overcome in order to snap over the rim?
I think above is exactly what Paradad82 was saying. Devil's advocate is good. I think it makes sense. Also why I suggested that not fully seating a cartridge with a finger, and pushing it into the chamber with the bolt - is equivalent to stripping it from the magazine.

Les
 

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ALWAYS load a round from the magazine. Simply setting a round atop the magazine follower can cause massive extractor damage.

When a round is pushed forward out of the magazine by the bolt face, notice that the rim of the case slides up into place under the extractor hook. If you just place a round on the follower, or even just stuff it into the chamber, it is necessary for the extractor to forcibly spring outward and snap over the rim. Depending on the nose shape of the extractor, you may actually be able to accomplish the task. Otherwise, it's more likely to bend & collapse the extractor, necessitating removal and replacement.

The Mosin Nagant may be made with admittedly "generous" dimensional specifications, but the extractor is made to more exacting specs. I'd recommend to NEVER tamper with its' configuration or modify it in any way, unless it's already been abused or damaged & you plan to replace it.

NOW, just for giggles, lie down on your back and hold the rifle upside down in front of you. Notice that you can easily chamber a round with the action inverted - it's all due to the action of the case rim snapping into place behind the extractor hook, while feeding up & out from the magazine.

Wow. This is so wrong. They must have confused a Mosin with a Mouser. They both start with an M. Either way, nothing in the above is even remotely true or accurate.
 

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I had toload my 44 Izzy single shot for range rules. After Every 5th or6th round, the bolt was especially hard to open. When I needed a piece of pipe for leverage, I put the question to gun boards, and someone suggested the rounds need to feed from the magazine. It worked for me. Noproblem since.
 

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Either way you feed, if you stop a half inch short of pushing the bolt all the way forward and pull the bolt back, the round will not be pulled back with the bolt. This proves the extractor has not slipped over the rim and therefore it doesn't matter which way it gets to that point, they both do the same thing from that point forward.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
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