Joined
·
1,268 Posts
View attachment 133878
what if ANY good is this gonna do? i'm not sure i understand this on top of the printing of money 24/7 what will the result be?
fed cuts rates (again)
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
llama
This is a full on effort to reverse the current deflation we are experiencing and create inflation.
It won't work, there are too many gaming for personnal profit in the market, naked shorts of stocks, bonds, loans, treasuries, commodities and probably every other monetary exchange media.
Too many years without regulatory oversight.
IMHO
This is a full on effort to reverse the current deflation we are experiencing and create inflation.
It won't work, there are too many gaming for personnal profit in the market, naked shorts of stocks, bonds, loans, treasuries, commodities and probably every other monetary exchange media.
Too many years without regulatory oversight.
IMHO
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
The object of both the non-existent interest rate and the money printing is to devalue the dollar.. the "experts" think about 40% devaluation should be enough... wages and capital go up about 40% prices go up for imported goods our exports become cheaper and are more competive overseas... all debt is effectively cut by 40%...
Employment should go up, or at least go down slower.. it discourages saving as there is almost no intrest paid on savings so people spend more... existing loans can be refinanced at much lower rates credit card interest goes down so cards can be paid off with cheaper and easier dollars... the blood flows in the patient again
It will .. (it is designed to) prompt inflation... Inflation is easier and much less painful to correct for than deflation... during inflation people are working and shoping and the economy grows... it also reduces the value ( but not the monetary ammount) of any goverment deficits and debt.. especially any debt held by forigieners making it easier to pay off down the road.
Wages won't go up at first.. the cost of living will go up and that will push wages up slowly increasing apparent wealth over time making it easier for people to either pay off debt or carry much larger balances of debt and still make payments ...ARM Mortgages will reset to lower rates making fewer ARM problematic...
This is what most folks don't realize... The Fed is a private bank.. it is no more federal than Federal Express.. it loans all that fresh printed money to the US Goverment... "We the People" pay interest on all that money the Fed Prints and loans to the US Goverment.. The Goverment is getting much cheaper money and less taxes need be paid to the Fed to cover the National Debt. The US Goverment by the Constitution can only coin money backed by silver and gold.. that got sort of extended to paper money backed by silver and gold for awhile.. but once we went to a pure paper money only backed by full faith and credit, the US Goverment could not by law print it.. thats why we have a Federal Reserve whch isn't Federal.. the Goverment " Regulates" it, Licenses it, but does not own it.. it's a Private Bank.. the US Goverment's Private Bank, perhaps, but still owned by some very rich very fat private cats.
FIAT money is called FIAT money because it value is set by fiat or decree by the goverment... if the goverment decides that a dollar is worth 60 cents then the dollar is worth 60 cents.. this is why silver dollars, silver dollars that were worth 1 dollar in 1964 equal to a paper dollar, are now worth about 10 dollars because of the silver in them.. well silver dollars are popular and actually go for about $20 and up because of numismatic value.. but the silver content is 9-10 bucks at current silver prices.
Nobody really got hurt.. in fact most folks did well or think the did well between 1964 and now despite having the dollar devalued 90% between 1694 and now.. another 40% spread out over , oh say 4 years or so .. is only 10% inflation.. in the end, wages will go up maybe 25%... the goverment lies about how much inflation there is so wages adjusted for "cost of living", social security payments, goverment and military pay don't go up as fast as inflation.. yeah that sucks.. but the people by and large don't really complain or vote when their income goes up slower than prices.. goverments be doing it for decades now.. politicians always make promises that they will work to help you keep up.. but the one thing that would make "keeping up" automatic.. honesty about inflation rates is never mentioned.. we can't afford that.. we need to boost inflation to keep everybody working with spending money.. all the while actually cutting everybodies pay just a little each year but still shoving everybody up tax bracket to get more money to cover the goverment debt.. We need cheaper labor so our domestic industry can compete with the rest of the world.. inflation does that for us.. well for industrial and business fat cats.
Inflation driven by low interest rates and cheap money is the cure for any economic downturn.. and it really is far more pleasnat than unemployment and depression.. unless of course you actualy try and save money denominated in dollars or live off fixed rate CD's and money market funds during retirement...
Inflation of fiat money is all the rage.. all the countries are doing it... of we do it more than they do we can sell more of our stuff overseas and our domestic consumers will be inticed to buy more locally made non imported stuff and our industry grows and everybody works and shops and we are Golden....
uh thats why I am in silver and gold...
come on admit it.. you really didnt mind that much while the dollar went down 90% over the last 44 years ( thats barely 6%-7%) inflation ( compounded.. it always looked like you were earning more.. you were working steady... so inflation goes to 10%-12% for a while you will be fine... and as a bonus.. if you are smart and save some cash.. when it comes time to reign in inflation ( if the goverment can ... thats always a risk) you will be getting very high interst rates on saving 5 or 6 years down the road , because thats how you reign in inflation you jack up interest rates and encourage savings.
Trouble is everybody is doing it.. will the US even be able to devalue the dollar enough... ahhh thats the drama and suspense
Hell .. some folks thik we won't be able to.. they figure the goverment will deflaut on US Bonds and Tresuries by about July 09 and declare bankrupcy and totally not redeem US Goverments bonds completely colapsing the entire economy.. that would be bad.. bad like crossing the power streams on the ghostbusters nuclear backpacks bad.
But devaluing the dollar is all we got left.. so what the heck lets give it a try..
and thats why I am in silver and gold...
Employment should go up, or at least go down slower.. it discourages saving as there is almost no intrest paid on savings so people spend more... existing loans can be refinanced at much lower rates credit card interest goes down so cards can be paid off with cheaper and easier dollars... the blood flows in the patient again
It will .. (it is designed to) prompt inflation... Inflation is easier and much less painful to correct for than deflation... during inflation people are working and shoping and the economy grows... it also reduces the value ( but not the monetary ammount) of any goverment deficits and debt.. especially any debt held by forigieners making it easier to pay off down the road.
Wages won't go up at first.. the cost of living will go up and that will push wages up slowly increasing apparent wealth over time making it easier for people to either pay off debt or carry much larger balances of debt and still make payments ...ARM Mortgages will reset to lower rates making fewer ARM problematic...
This is what most folks don't realize... The Fed is a private bank.. it is no more federal than Federal Express.. it loans all that fresh printed money to the US Goverment... "We the People" pay interest on all that money the Fed Prints and loans to the US Goverment.. The Goverment is getting much cheaper money and less taxes need be paid to the Fed to cover the National Debt. The US Goverment by the Constitution can only coin money backed by silver and gold.. that got sort of extended to paper money backed by silver and gold for awhile.. but once we went to a pure paper money only backed by full faith and credit, the US Goverment could not by law print it.. thats why we have a Federal Reserve whch isn't Federal.. the Goverment " Regulates" it, Licenses it, but does not own it.. it's a Private Bank.. the US Goverment's Private Bank, perhaps, but still owned by some very rich very fat private cats.
FIAT money is called FIAT money because it value is set by fiat or decree by the goverment... if the goverment decides that a dollar is worth 60 cents then the dollar is worth 60 cents.. this is why silver dollars, silver dollars that were worth 1 dollar in 1964 equal to a paper dollar, are now worth about 10 dollars because of the silver in them.. well silver dollars are popular and actually go for about $20 and up because of numismatic value.. but the silver content is 9-10 bucks at current silver prices.
Nobody really got hurt.. in fact most folks did well or think the did well between 1964 and now despite having the dollar devalued 90% between 1694 and now.. another 40% spread out over , oh say 4 years or so .. is only 10% inflation.. in the end, wages will go up maybe 25%... the goverment lies about how much inflation there is so wages adjusted for "cost of living", social security payments, goverment and military pay don't go up as fast as inflation.. yeah that sucks.. but the people by and large don't really complain or vote when their income goes up slower than prices.. goverments be doing it for decades now.. politicians always make promises that they will work to help you keep up.. but the one thing that would make "keeping up" automatic.. honesty about inflation rates is never mentioned.. we can't afford that.. we need to boost inflation to keep everybody working with spending money.. all the while actually cutting everybodies pay just a little each year but still shoving everybody up tax bracket to get more money to cover the goverment debt.. We need cheaper labor so our domestic industry can compete with the rest of the world.. inflation does that for us.. well for industrial and business fat cats.
Inflation driven by low interest rates and cheap money is the cure for any economic downturn.. and it really is far more pleasnat than unemployment and depression.. unless of course you actualy try and save money denominated in dollars or live off fixed rate CD's and money market funds during retirement...
Inflation of fiat money is all the rage.. all the countries are doing it... of we do it more than they do we can sell more of our stuff overseas and our domestic consumers will be inticed to buy more locally made non imported stuff and our industry grows and everybody works and shops and we are Golden....
uh thats why I am in silver and gold...
come on admit it.. you really didnt mind that much while the dollar went down 90% over the last 44 years ( thats barely 6%-7%) inflation ( compounded.. it always looked like you were earning more.. you were working steady... so inflation goes to 10%-12% for a while you will be fine... and as a bonus.. if you are smart and save some cash.. when it comes time to reign in inflation ( if the goverment can ... thats always a risk) you will be getting very high interst rates on saving 5 or 6 years down the road , because thats how you reign in inflation you jack up interest rates and encourage savings.
Trouble is everybody is doing it.. will the US even be able to devalue the dollar enough... ahhh thats the drama and suspense
Hell .. some folks thik we won't be able to.. they figure the goverment will deflaut on US Bonds and Tresuries by about July 09 and declare bankrupcy and totally not redeem US Goverments bonds completely colapsing the entire economy.. that would be bad.. bad like crossing the power streams on the ghostbusters nuclear backpacks bad.
But devaluing the dollar is all we got left.. so what the heck lets give it a try..
and thats why I am in silver and gold...
Joined
·
10,388 Posts
Looking at who still has sound currencies - the Swiss, the Japanese - I'm not sure I'd have a problem with the country going to the highest bidders. Maybe we'd get some competent management. Seems treasonous to suggest that selling our democracy to the highest bidder might be a good thing but then when you look at how the takers in society keep voting themselves raises it makes someone like me feel so disenfranchised already that the nation's loss of self determination doesn't feel like a personal loss for me.
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
You can count out the Japanese..... we pulled this scam on them in the 90's... they came in and bought alot of big stuff skyscrapers and farms and then we reversed on them property fell dollar went strong and we took their "investments" and bought them back at 10 cents on the dollar... forget the Arab Oil Soverign wealth funds too we did them the same way this year.. they lost ..we gained 100's of Billions of dollars in that head fake.. the Swiss have their own problems... we collapse everybody collapses... hey people, everybody everywhere is FIAT money... Them what got their own commodities or have money not denominated in any currency will profit.. will do well.
The free market can fix itself.. goverment trying to help just spreads out the pain and makes it last longer... the cure for high prices is always high prices.. the cure for low prices is always low prices.. the cure for depression is having a depression.... no.. what you can count on is commodities will become precious.. unfortunately so precious folks will be willing to fight for oil, water, ore, food... This is where the popular wisdom gets folks killed.. truth be told we use 25% of the worlds resources and by and large we use it with much greater efficency than almost anybody else.... certainly better than anybody else in an overall sense.. one or two technologies maybe not so much here and there.. and we have an industrial output about twice our closest competitors.... we have the worlds lock on renewable commodities like food.. and that simple fact is so often overlooked... Agriculture is the most efficent way to increase a nations wealth.. it is the only commodity that you can renew year after year.. and everybody needs to eat... it's not as flashy and a quick buck like mineral resources but it is the all time over time winner in making nations rich..
Hey guys remember Nixon, when he closed to gold windows technically defaulted the US and Technically we went bankrupt.. Carter took the heat, Reagan did the inflation thing to get us back up and running and inflation and Starwars took down the Commies trying to keep up... we have been there done that a couple times FDR did it as well but it got disguised as the Arseal of Democracy... We are just trying the naked infalation thing this time BEFORE bankrupcy... hell.. it might work.
The free market can fix itself.. goverment trying to help just spreads out the pain and makes it last longer... the cure for high prices is always high prices.. the cure for low prices is always low prices.. the cure for depression is having a depression.... no.. what you can count on is commodities will become precious.. unfortunately so precious folks will be willing to fight for oil, water, ore, food... This is where the popular wisdom gets folks killed.. truth be told we use 25% of the worlds resources and by and large we use it with much greater efficency than almost anybody else.... certainly better than anybody else in an overall sense.. one or two technologies maybe not so much here and there.. and we have an industrial output about twice our closest competitors.... we have the worlds lock on renewable commodities like food.. and that simple fact is so often overlooked... Agriculture is the most efficent way to increase a nations wealth.. it is the only commodity that you can renew year after year.. and everybody needs to eat... it's not as flashy and a quick buck like mineral resources but it is the all time over time winner in making nations rich..
Hey guys remember Nixon, when he closed to gold windows technically defaulted the US and Technically we went bankrupt.. Carter took the heat, Reagan did the inflation thing to get us back up and running and inflation and Starwars took down the Commies trying to keep up... we have been there done that a couple times FDR did it as well but it got disguised as the Arseal of Democracy... We are just trying the naked infalation thing this time BEFORE bankrupcy... hell.. it might work.
Joined
·
1,430 Posts
Didn't the Japanese lower they comparable interest rates to 0% years ago? I thought the result was 20+ yrs of recession. So then the question becomes, what are they gonna do when this doesn't fix the problem as they expect? It's pretty tough to go lower than 0% interest....Looks like they're about out of tools in the economic toolbox, short of a govt takeover of the entire economy.... BeSwift
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
The Swiss LOL hey... you ought to look at their financials... thier big banks have had to take losses in this mess equal to about twice the GNP of Swizterland ( seriously that is not an overstatement).. despite the reputation and all that it can be real bad to have banking as your largest industry in an ecomonic downturn when everything in the bank is some sort of fiat currency. Europe.. sorry charlie.. no country is offically required to even back or defend the euro... Germans when they withdraw cash from a German Bank whip out a little list of serial numbers so they can identify what country printed the euros the bank hands them.. if they aren't GERMAN printed euros they redeposit them and try again until they get GERMAN euros... not that it matters in the least.. but they trust German Euros more than Italian or Spanish printed euros.... thats a real bad sign when all the money has behind it is faith in the Goverment... and thats all fiat has... me I got 2500 year old greek coins.. heck I have a 2100 year old silver coin from Indo Sythia in Northern India.. it's still good for it's weight in silver anywhere anytime, who the hell ever heard of Indo Scythia .. who the hell cares.. its silver.
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
Japanese situation is different in many regards ... no oil and cannot feed themselves they have to import almost ever raw material and most of there food also their market and economy crashed for different reasons
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/nikkei.htm
Not saying there aren't similarities in the crash part of the crash.. but all the underlying facts are different.... if we can keep production up at any cost and shift to ever more domestic resources we come out of this mess first... the Japanese never even had the option of feeding themselves even on the simplest of diets much less fueling themselves with domestic energy
We need energy to be about 3 times as expensive as it is now to fully go domestic on energy.. thats why I like a tax on gas that keeps it above $4 a gallon... that pays for infrastructure, keeps domestic energy use in check and prompts private investment in alternatives and renewables.. yeah it sucks for SUV owners.. but it shifts us to domestic energy , we already got the domestic food... still and all we got a rough 10 years ahead of us.
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/nikkei.htm
Not saying there aren't similarities in the crash part of the crash.. but all the underlying facts are different.... if we can keep production up at any cost and shift to ever more domestic resources we come out of this mess first... the Japanese never even had the option of feeding themselves even on the simplest of diets much less fueling themselves with domestic energy
We need energy to be about 3 times as expensive as it is now to fully go domestic on energy.. thats why I like a tax on gas that keeps it above $4 a gallon... that pays for infrastructure, keeps domestic energy use in check and prompts private investment in alternatives and renewables.. yeah it sucks for SUV owners.. but it shifts us to domestic energy , we already got the domestic food... still and all we got a rough 10 years ahead of us.
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
ammosgt: so YOU think what the fed is doing is O.K?
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
yeah.. MONEY has NOTHING to do with survival right BR?
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
Llama not really see comments above goverment interference in free market and letting the market fix itself... I am philosphically/ politically a hard money girl... which is far more reactionary than anything we are discussing here... The goverment is so intertwined with private business now it boggles the mind... has to be, if the consumer is 70% then 30% is goverment contracts and such... thats already to much.. to much goverment to much goverment involement in business they are going to end up saving the Big 3 because the US Goverment can't be seen buying fleets of Toyotas for Bueracrats or sending out boys into combat in a Acura.
I was just answering the question... I don't have to agree with it to say what it is intended to do.... hey, if the economy fails completely I am richer than shit... they pull this off I will merely be wealthy....
I am not a big fan of having to choose between doctrinal purity and the degree of suffering and which is best , short and extermely painful or just long and agonizing.
Regardless of where anybody is on the best way out.. we are all here because of the policies chosen in the past to get us here. As many policies labled conservative as liberal ... Bush is the one doing the bailing the whole cast and crew of the low tax spend and borrow off budget conservative policies are the very clowns that created those poilices are doing the bailing out... not that I haven't been pointing out that the republicans in power are no more conservative than the man in the moon.
You know Obama is going to gut NASA, speaking of the moon.
I can safely say I am pretty much vanilia Austrian when it comes to policy.
I was just answering the question... I don't have to agree with it to say what it is intended to do.... hey, if the economy fails completely I am richer than shit... they pull this off I will merely be wealthy....
I am not a big fan of having to choose between doctrinal purity and the degree of suffering and which is best , short and extermely painful or just long and agonizing.
Regardless of where anybody is on the best way out.. we are all here because of the policies chosen in the past to get us here. As many policies labled conservative as liberal ... Bush is the one doing the bailing the whole cast and crew of the low tax spend and borrow off budget conservative policies are the very clowns that created those poilices are doing the bailing out... not that I haven't been pointing out that the republicans in power are no more conservative than the man in the moon.
You know Obama is going to gut NASA, speaking of the moon.
I can safely say I am pretty much vanilia Austrian when it comes to policy.
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
i like the way you think lady! (i really do!)
(i really do!)
Joined
·
10,388 Posts
Well on this subject and the comment about commodities wealth - the Swiss currency is fairly strong despite the banking problems, the Yen is insanely strong (now at 87 to the dollar; was over 100 not long ago), but the Canadian dollar - now there's a fairly resource rich country - is weak. Don't know how much food Canada exports. We'll see how things shake out over the next couple of years....
Edited to say - maybe I spoke too soon about Japan; this just in from Marketwatch -
"Following the U.S. Fed's bold easing steps, the Bank of Japan is now more likely than not to cut the overnight rate target by 20 basis points to 0.10% on December 19 with additional liquidity injection measures, in our view," said Tomoko Fujii, head of economics and strategy for Bank of America in Tokyo."
Love this comment from their boards on this move -
The last one to ZERO is a rotten egg!
- FLARPH
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
Japan has to pay for imported raw material buy exporting finished goods... just as the consumer is 70% of our economy .. manifacturing export is 70% of Japans.. it's export or die... a strong Yen makes all their exports more expensive and less competitive .. thats bad for them good for us.
Joined
·
13,558 Posts
Article from today on deflation/inflation and Fed cut.. hazards ahead
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/merk/merk121708.html
from two days ago
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/engdahl/engdahl121508.html
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff121508.html
and an article on devaluing the dollar
http://www.forbes.com/finance/inves...luation-gold-pf-ii-in_fb_1209soapbox_inl.html
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/merk/merk121708.html
from two days ago
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/engdahl/engdahl121508.html
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schiff/schiff121508.html
and an article on devaluing the dollar
http://www.forbes.com/finance/inves...luation-gold-pf-ii-in_fb_1209soapbox_inl.html
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
i think MAYBE hambone was "attempting" to be funny again.. this whole ECONOMIC SITUATION won't be too funny soon..
Joined
·
3,553 Posts
Well Said!!!!!.....
I just wish I would've listened 8-9 yrs ago when someone (Franklin Sanders) told me to BUY GOLD and SILVER.......He sure turned out to be RIGHT!!!...
That's gonna HURT North Alabama......but I don't think he will gut NASA.....He Loves JFK too much....
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
