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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen some awesome stocks, pretty much all Fin arctic birch, but also near pristine stocks on something like a 91, I could see it as a Spanish replacement stock (beat to hell), but, well some of them look TOO good, almost like a clean Spanish tiger striped '93 stock (oak I believe?)
Some don't look refinish, others obviously are.

How do you tell the real deal from a good fake, as 'graining' as long been a furniture technique to made good wood look like top grade fancy wood.
 

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I would think something like that would be hard to tell. Its wild what people fake for a few bucks. As far as markings they could say they were sanded and restained.

I know a guy who has the letters for sks' and he makes all his stocks match. I don't do business with this guy by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know of a few techniques, in graining you use an opaque dye, the literally pull a uneven or 'graining' comb through it to produce a grain, you wipe off the actual wood, so I'd say it's more painting a grain, but it made pine or cheaper hardwoods look like much more expensive wood, others are doing things like wrapping stings around a stock so that the stain is either absorbed or applied in a striped pattern.

then there are the more complex ones. Most of these are pretty detectable, but others well, take the graining, if done by a master you couldn't tell it from a veneer, most weren't and you could by simply looking at the back of the piece, I think that's another tell, is the pattern continued through the wood or just around the wood, but that also depends on the cut the stock was made from, as the 'figure' usually moves perpendicular to the grain, but thats entirely dependent on the cut, type of wood, and hell each piece is different, it could run kinda plainer at an angle to the grain, or be like pines were the figure usually only shows in the rings, or dark portion of the grain.

So how do you tell?
 

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I'd look at the finish, itself. If it's been refinished, then it would be suspect to me. Of course, sometimes it's difficult to tell that as well. I've seen fakes that have stripes that cross parts (stock to handguard). That would be a good indication. I wouldn't pay a whole lot more for one with tiger stripes, myself, but it might make me buy one I hadn't planned to buy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would pay more for a stockset made out of the same block of wood and hence matched
but since that's not how they did it
well, NO, not real on a military stock.
 

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Savage used to do a kind of striping in their real cheap stocks back in the late 70's early 80's. These were the "walnut finished hardwood stock" that you could get on the most basic 110. I don't knock Savage, I own and have owned their products, just observing. The same happened on cheap, but not the cheapest, 22 rifles. Sometimes it was pretty obvious, almost like spray paint. Never was it hard to figure out because the underlying wood (beech perhaps, maple?) had no grain or feature what-so-ever.

I suppose it could happen to Finns, but there is no established mark-up on beautiful tiger-striping on a Finnish rifle. Yeah, most of us would be willing to pay a bit more, but not $200 more (heck, I doubt any here would drop an extra $100 on a 1942 VKT just because the stock was pretty). But, I could merely be naive on the subject, too.
 

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A long time ago i knew a gunsmith that made tiger strip stocks. He told me he took natural (hemp?) string/twine , soak it in stain and wrap it around the stock and leave it there for a few days until he got the desired affect.
 

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This was done with Kentucky longrifles for centuries -string or cloth soaked in a variety of common oxidizing chemicals was left on for days, changing the wood color to a darker tone.
A long time ago i knew a gunsmith that made tiger strip stocks. He told me he took natural (hemp?) string/twine , soak it in stain and wrap it around the stock and leave it there for a few days until he got the desired affect.
 

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A long time ago i knew a gunsmith that made tiger strip stocks. He told me he took natural (hemp?) string/twine , soak it in stain and wrap it around the stock and leave it there for a few days until he got the desired affect.
Back in the flint and percussion days, they wrapped hemp or cloth around the stock that was soaked in kerosine/whale oil and lit it and then rubbed/smoothed the burn mark down lighty to give it the tiger stripe effect, Ray

Coincidently, I Just watched "How It Was Made" on TV last night. They were making canes and they would pass a blow torch quickly accross the cane length wise to darken the wood. Darkened the canes nicely. Ray
 

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Back in the flint and percussion days, they wrapped hemp or cloth around the stock that was soaked in kerosine/whale oil and lit it and then rubbed/smoothed the burn mark down lighty to give it the tiger stripe effect, Ray
The sides of the barrel channels were so thin that they would have burned through, or the surface would have become wavy, if charred that heavily. Not too probable that anyone would risk a stock worth hours of work to such uncontrolled circumstances. Charring with a hot iron might be more likely. Much more controllable, and the iron wouldn't even have to touch the wood, if hot enough.

One theory supports the idea(most likely in my opinion), that the feathering was made by staining with brushes that were cut so that they looked like combs.

If there is real tiger striping, then a close examination of the wood grains will usually show a curly pattern. That's why, for example, tiger maple is also known as curly maple.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Um, they burned them, heard of the hemp soak and light, the rope protects the stock (mostly) and the area inbetween gets striped, and yes a little goes a long ways, there's some cool write up's if you google it.
 

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Vorere of Germany used lasers...on high dollar stocks....light walnut.... late 1970's ads.

i refinished one of these Vorere....beat stock, with a heavy poorly re-varnished stock... blue excellent 98%....express sights tang safety....5 pounds 2 oz 3006..

after stripping the built up goo, light sanding.....all the grain changed?
lots of sap wood and dark grains in the darker part of the wood......

well i didn't have a laser....i used a quality magnifying glass in the hot summer....
three days, a sun burn and a steady hand polarized glasses.....it looked beautiful....
even better than org.

i used a a Boyds stock brochure.....picked a pattern that matched what i had to some degree and did a side a day....bottom the last day.....

i'm a artist but profession.....good at what i do...

Pinkertons red 64....honey walnut...stains brushed heated in the sun in supported nature of the pattern established...and to not share the wood.

followed by 6 layers of quality gunstock polyurethane light sanded between each layer with 400 flint paper.....

years later traded it for a Colt Python to a gun dealer...

the rope burning....doesn't work well uncontrollable results....damages the wood in more than one place....

chemical soaking the thick hemp rope works well in some stains but it takes an artistic eye to get ableavle pattern....and practice..
i had some formulas a very long time ago....when i was doing many refinishes....
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thinned oil paints on string or real walnut juices extracted in alcohol, many other things that will stain wood works or has been tried!

if its a beater than you have made it look good....if your good at it it is a pleasure to the proud owner....
if your defrauding or hiding a refinish for profit its unethical !

my stock works had the smell and was known as a refinish gun!

Savage pressure "cooks" forces into wood STAINs.....wood that has "lots of sap" in the woods bought in KENTUCKY near Mooresville? or head?

Remington get utility grade walnut blanks no or little grain, stain mixed in other finishes making them enhance whats barely there.....i have seen the pallets loaded..

its the only large stock blank saw mill on east coast....

that's where me and my stocking friend get our truck loads of shotgun hand picked woods AA-, A +....

TRIPPLE A...too hard to work down, doesnt want to hold an oil finish, spray finishes layered, too hard to checker by hand or dulls good tools... will chip instead of cut...
start to have splits as releaving pressures change...."pop outs"...warping...
drilling polit holes shotguns tocks go crooked, the bit will follow the softes grain inside the butt stock....

enhansing the woods has been done in guns since day one...or they all wood have light dark areas taking away from a perficely good piece of wood that has a few problems in color or needs a filler in the pores, or to cover sap wood areas
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That reminds me, the next time I go to my inlaws, I need to stop a the sawmill past Fola (it's before Bickmore in Clay Co.) and see if they have any decent hickory or Chestnut lumber that I could make into blanks.
 

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Coincidently, I Just watched "How It Was Made" on TV last night. They were making walking canes and they would pass a blow torch quickly accross the cane length wise to darken the wood. Darkened the canes nicely. The canes were made of hickory, I believe same wood as some of the old rifle stocks were made of. There was no damage to the wood as where the wood were burned was as smooth as before.
My understand there was no damage with the rope trick either as you didn't allow it to keep burning where it would char the wood you removed it quickly just like the blow torch method above. Why would anyone keep the flame burning long enough to damage the wood? Think about it.
I would imagine the old gun makers knew just how long to keep the rope burning on the stock to pruduce just the right dark color, Ray
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Vorere of Germany used lasers...on high dollar stocks....light walnut.... late 1970's ads
GEE's you say fake them, I could do that right now, you just soak a string and use it 'paint' a dry prepped stock, then go behind with another one (dry) to pick some of the dye up.

it doesn't stand up to inspection, but the right light and I can get a hell of a photo, it's a technique, AND very easy to spot if you know what to look for, that said, there are ways that are much more advanced and hence more difficult to spot. It's a technique, thats it, what YOU do with it is up to you, the burned stocks are HARD to spot on certain types of wood because THAT is what the flame looks like (like flames maybe, hence the name?)

That's what I was asking, what are the tells, so when MR FAKER does try to charge top dollar for bottom of the barrel wood on a rifle (once again, the inletting will tell the story, but you can't see that until you won the rifle)
 

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I guess it would be difficult to tell from a picture, unless you can ask for specific pictures from specific angles. I suppose that if I was going to buy a gun just for the tiger striping (and I don't), then it would be imperative that the seller could convince me that they aren't fake. As I stated earlier, the striping will change with angles. A good example is my Argentine 1891 Cavalry Carbine.

Now, you see 'em.





And now you don't (as much).

 

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polish the un treated wood so much as to it looks already finished.....
before you put and high lights of different alcohol stains that are properly spaced.....
and the desired colorations widths with variances......
polish woods again with smoother cloths before covered it in a finish desired!

not making extreme changes or too dark areas in the wood are harder to spot.....
any new finish is suspect of enhancing.....the good the bad examples are very different!
flaming if done wrong will be flat lack depth luster in that area most of the time!

not always faked some time is alreaDY THERE just needing enhanced!
 
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