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Ronin48
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
3670 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 08:40:02 AM
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Eloldhombre originally started this post so I hope he doesn't mind that I've altered the subject line a little bit to encompass a broader purpose. That said, I think this is an area that can be to the benefit to all collectors. Feel free to add comments on the subjects listed or to add new commentary on items you have observed or heard about, to the list of fakes and alterations meant to deceive.
I want to stay away from naming names here. However if there are several posters who can confirm the names of individuals who intentionally spew out fakes, I may consider listing those individuals names but CHECK WITH ME FIRST ON THAT. Kim Fields, Moderator
Here goes:

Rick Veal called last PM from a show in either NC or SC. He had observed two 99s, both for sale by the same person, that had the mums 'restored' over a grind area. The grind marks were still visable under the mums. Rick will probably elaborate on this, but it is only a matter of time until receivers are rounded, removing grind evidence, before mems are 'restored.' Look very closely at any mummed rifle you see. As I understand it the seller is a buddy of a known German militaria faker.

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03man
Moderator
USA
3839 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 11:36:44 AM
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I saw them too, they are at the Greensboro, NC show. Cheats are so stupid, why would anyone stamp a mum over grinding??? But that is what they did. Guy who had them asked me "what do you think about them?" I told him I thought they were T99's and I would have to check my list to see if I needed either.

Should I have told him I was 99.99% sure they were restamps?

Mum lines were a little thin, guess its hard to get a deep strike. If it were stamped on a smooth receiver, aged a little, they would probably fool most of us, myself included, unless the same guy had it.

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This fellow that Rick V. is talking about is a real piece of Sh!!. Sorry work. Word is this is not the 1st time this has happened, he also deals in German stuff. Lives in the Winston Salem, NC area.BEWARE

Jareth
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1634 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 3:45:56 PM
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I checked back with Rick, unfortunately for someone the two rifles sold yesterday.
In regard to the US stamps, this has been going on for some time. They are to new, sharp, or deep looking to fool most serious collectors, they will get a new guy though. Sometimes an old one, but they usually screw up and put marks that don't belong together or are not right for the stock, or are missing some other marks. Lance hit it right, too perfect is too hard to believe, be skeptical.

garnettstancil
Gunboards Member
75 Posts
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 11:18:19 PM
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Gentlemen, Interesting thread and an important one. I manufacture and repair military leather equipment and use a small personal logo stamp that appears like an inspector stamp but has my name in it. I had the odd privilage at a gun show of having one of my leather products ( a Blakeslee 10 tube cartidge box) offered to me as an original by someone who had purchased it by mail and then " roughed up " the copy to make it look old. It could be that at least in some cases making reproduction markings the problem is n ot just that someone has reproduced original markings but that the site or the item is subsequently " aged " or " site dinged " to fool even some seasoned collectors. This disease is creeping into all aspects of militaria collecting it seems. I am new to Japanese rifles having traded for a nice clean Type 38 made before WW1. It is a sweet shooter and in overall nice shape. I am sure it has been arsenal refinished at one time or another. I like this whole site and have learned a lot. Old dogs can still learn. Joe Turner

GOEX FFF
Gunboards Super Premium Member
542 Posts
Posted - 04/01/2005 : 9:02:33 PM
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Recently contacted by a former BANZAI subscriber with a number of items for sale (See July issue) He wanted to sell them to me and I replied my purchases were mainly rifles. He said he had one, mum, wings, rod, matching and I made an offer that he accepted. Rifle came and obvious stock refinish. I didn't have much in it and would have made a good 'donor' rifle for someone with a mismatched/ground example with a decent stock. The Grasshopper (gwsiii) was interested so showed it to him the next time he dropped by.

"Have you noted the mum, it's been reworked, rub your finger over it." said my 'young' friend. Sho Nuf! Apparently mum had been partially ground and someone had professionally engraved the missing area, but 'redid' the center circle a tad too small. Still happy with the rifle, will dump it on Garfield next time we meet. Seriously, goes to show what you observe when you are a serious student such as Trey!

sylentsnyper
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
201 Posts
Posted - 08/24/2005 : 4:59:38 PM
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Trying to pass off a repro as original is unethical. Refinishing a rifle to look original because one does not have the means to purchase an original is a personal choice.

OldManKiller
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
142 Posts
Posted - 09/01/2006 : 4:23:41 PM
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Boy do I ever feel like a dope! You experts can shake your heads and give me the tsk tsk tsk's, I'm ready for it.

But, having been given a Type 38 with a highly bubba's stock, I have been looking for an original replacement. Then there it was on E-bay. It looked good in the photo's but then today I got it in the mail.......I am less than pleased with the piece of crap I was sold. Nothing fits as it should. Even the screw holes are too small. And other holes or indents that should be there are not. Looks like someone copied one then gouged out the reciever openings with a forstner bit on a drill press. No stampings to be found anywhere. Nice aged appearance and something that wasn't evident in the photo's. Brush marks from the lacquered finish. I also got the bayonet lug from the same guy. No numbers stamp, rough finish and even had flashing in the cleaning rod hole.

My advice, when dealing on E-bay, do your due diligence. Do not become a victim.

Before you ask, no I doubt E-bay can help me since the winning bidder failed to buy the item on time (or maybe there were more than one?) so I was approached by the seller. I will let you know what happens.

I am not going to mention the sellers name yet, since there is the possibility that he may not have been knowledgeable on Type 38's and just parted out and passed on what he thought was real.

PS, anyone have an inexpensive "original" stock set available?

Bobby
USAF 77-81
USAFRES 81-85
www.ww1remembered.org

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Why not post this guy's name so anyone who might come into contact with him will know who he is and to avoid him? A criminal such as this should get all the bad publicity that can be had in order to put him out of business!!!

Ronin48
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
3670 Posts
Posted - 05/21/2007 : 9:48:46 PM
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At the last SOS there was one of the TN? "God Awful" fake 99 snipers. At the recent, last week, K.C. show there was a "Korean Conversion" that looked good, but there were wrench marks on the chamber. Did the U. S.. Army use a "monkey" wrench to remove a barrel?
 

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Type 99 with reapplied mum.

I saw one of these guns at the Harrisburg, Pa show on Saturday the 8th. Clear grind marks with an intact mum directly over them. This was a mismatched gun though and was only selling for about $250.00..
 

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Fakes

I think we should have a seperate forum which lists known fakers (addresses, emails, etc), what their specialty is, pics of their work, etc. I've sent back 2 german rifles off of gunbroker recently that were renumbered, force-matched, reblued, etc. Both rifles were sent back, and both were resold on the same site. Both guys had a no return policy, yet both instantly gave me my cash back(threatened to call ATF and report them for changing serial numbers on a rifle) One in fact bragged about his work on a 98k sniper, which later sold for big cash on gunbroker. Whomever saw those 2 type 99's should of made a bloody scene at the table.
 
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