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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend of mine let his C+R expire and now he wants to sell some of his collection face to face at a gunshow (legal here in Texas) and he claims no records of the sale/s are required.
I told him he still needs to keep his book current, license or not.
What's uncle say?
 

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If it's expired and he DID NOT reapplied for the license before the experation date, then your basically are not required to keep any kind or records...

Any further record keeping is not required for C&R license holders which is different then other license types.

BAF
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
So he can toss his bound book in the landfill, no records of any kind maintained whatsoever?
How about if he re-applies months after it expired, what happens to the expired records then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Not to belabor the point, but any/all c+r weapons listed in the "old" book are not required to be entered into the "new" book because of the time lapse between the end date of the old license and the start date of the new one?
I'm having trouble grasping how the strict record keeping requirements fade to nothing when the license expires...and don't re-awaken with the new license.
He is talking about getting a "new" C+R and starting over again without logging the "old" weapons, but I would be concerned about the appearance of profiting from off the book sales of older "booked" items?
 

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despite what the regs say the atf can hassle you any which way they want to. the safe thing to do would be to enter any c&r's on hand in his new bound book when/if he gets his new license.

he is not required to keep any records once his license has expired. (i would burn immediately) that much is absolutely clear. he can also sell whatever c&r's he wants within the limits of the law with no concern for his expired c&r. that much is also clear.

the thing to remember is that once the license expires, it is over. it never happened. forget about it, wipe your memory clean. when you get your new license it is just like starting all over again. one license has nothing to do with the other.

of course i'm not a lawyer and do not work for the atf. :eek:
 

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despite what the regs say the atf can hassle you any which way they want to. the safe thing to do would be to enter any c&r's on hand in his new bound book when/if he gets his new license.
What's the ATF gonna do? Take away his nonexistent license? Since they have no administrative power over a non-licensee and he's broken no laws they wont do anything, and trying to pin a criminal case on him for no reason could be a career ender for any agent who got involved. AND IN ALL CASES YOU FOLLOW THE REGULATIONS! Do not try to improve on them!

In any case if I let my license lapse I'd stick my book in the back of a closet and leave it, handy for insurance claims on any guns I keep and, as the old folks used to say, "It don't eat bread."

Otherwise he's a non-licensee and you treat him as if he never had a licence, just enter him and his address, not a license number, as the acquisition source in your book.
 

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. . . I'm having trouble grasping how the strict record keeping requirements fade to nothing when the license expires...and don't re-awaken with the new license.
The requirements for keeping C&R records after license expiration are not like that for an 01 FFL, where records must be sent to BATFE after an 01 hangs it up. No such requirement for a lapsed C&R holder.

If after some time passes, you friend gets another C&R, he starts from scratch logging acquisitions he picks up AFTER he gets the new C&R, and dispositions of ANY C&R-eligible firearm that he has in his collection at that time, regardless of when /how he obtained those C&R-eligible firearms. There is NO requirement to log guns already owned previous to becoming C&R licensed, UNLESS one or more of those guns is sold during the three-year term of the license.

Noah, a C&R licensee.
 

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To clear up the above post..

If your friend lets his license laps, then reapplies for a C&R license...all of the previous C&R weapons MUST be logged out of the new book if he sells/gives them away--those guns are not free and clear. You would simply log the gun into your new license book as "previously owned weapon" then log out to the new buyer....

Soooo to make a long story short the guns will still be on the "books" for disposing of them....

As well several other people have ran into hastles by the BATF when there in house inspection was done--the BATF begins insisting that previous owned weapons MUST be logged into your books when you get the license--which is not true...

BAF
 

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Here is how I read and understand the regulations:

While you have a C&R license, any C&R firearm you acquire or disposed of must be logged in and out:

If you acquire it during this time, you log it in.

If you dispose of it during this time, you log it out.

If you had acquired it before getting your license and dispose of it: You log it in as "acquired prior to license, and then log it out.

If you acquired it before getting your license, and keep it, it does not need to be logged in the bound book, because it was not acquired nor disposed of during the time you have your license.

If you let your C&R expire, you are once more a private citizen, and no records of any kind are needed.

If you later re-apply, everything starts over from the beginning.
 

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you got it right. Now, go forth and buy some more.

Here is how I read and understand the regulations:

While you have a C&R license, any C&R firearm you acquire or disposed of must be logged in and out:

If you acquire it during this time, you log it in.

If you dispose of it during this time, you log it out.

If you had acquired it before getting your license and dispose of it: You log it in as "acquired prior to license, and then log it out.

If you acquired it before getting your license, and keep it, it does not need to be logged in the bound book, because it was not acquired nor disposed of during the time you have your license.

If you let your C&R expire, you are once more a private citizen, and no records of any kind are needed.

If you later re-apply, everything starts over from the beginning.
:)
 

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A friend of mine let his C+R expire and now he wants to sell some of his collection face to face at a gunshow (legal here in Texas) and he claims no records of the sale/s are required.
I told him he still needs to keep his book current, license or not.
What's uncle say?
How can he do anything but sell them as any private citizen would.

He is currently unlicensed.

I let mine expire almost a year ago and have sold off most of my collection as a private citizen.

Many of mine were consigned to a dealer friend who logged them in and out of his 01 FFL book.

regards
badger
 
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