[ij70]

a) the cut on the right side of the stock, by the bolt handle, is necessary in order for the bolt to close completely.

b) the repair on the left side of the stock, by the rear sight, is just that, damage repair.

c) the repair on the top of the stock, by cocking piece, is probably damage repair too.

 

[ij70]

Jaz5833,
that's a very interesting rifle you got there.
It seems to me that the stock is not native to this rifle. The repair cut on the left side looks like standart post top PE mount repair.
Plugged mounting holes are the most interesting part of this rifle. They dont fit any commonly known type of mount used on Mosins. However, there are at least five rifles with this type of mount holes. Two on Ted's site (both 1934):
http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinFeatures.htm
(at the bottom of the page, under "unknown side rail mount").
Spur0701 has one,
I have one as well (1928 ex-dragoon)
and now you.
The screw holes are 5.0mm (VS 6.0mm on PU and PEM) and 62mm a part.
I am not 100% sure, but I would say that it used to be one of early NKVD snipers with German GeCo mounts.

Aha.

 

[ij70]

Dissapointed because it would be very expensive to reproduce? Or if another reason what would that be?

If you want to use hacking approach, you could get the scope+mount from a swedish mauser sniper rifle (M41?) and put it on your rifle. Then it will look like the one on the photo that Feldscher posted. On the other hand, I am fairly sure that it is not worth your while (and expansive to boot).

 

[ij70]

Can you tell mewhat means NKVD?

NKVD was branch of central Soviet government which dealt with law enforcement.

Also see attachment.

 

[ij70]

Was these rifles modified for sniper use (Using these GECO mount)in Berlin by Gustloff-Werke?

No.

Was this GECO mount used on Dragoon rifles in the late '20s too?

Soviets bought some and then started making their own copy of it.

What kind of scopes were used on the dragoon prototype sniper rifles?Zeiss, Bush?

Probably Zeiss since early Soviet scopes are copies of Zeiss.

And on these mid-'30s sniper rifles with GECO mount? Zeiss or PE?

PE and PEM.

 

[ij70]

The one thing I am not seeing is the "Ch" mark that Tula placed on snipers, usually located at the top of the star on the barrel. Wondering out loud, that with the odd GECO mount holes, if this was a field capture standard 91/30, modified by the Germans, as alb87 kinda suggests above.

CH (SN in English) was on Army (Red Army a.k.a. RKKA) rifles.

 

[ij70]

Feldscher, when you say "were ordered by USSR", whom did they place the order with? Themselves or someone else? With the info given throughout this thread have I correctly learned that the USSR somehow aquired some GECO mounts and Zeiss optics (?) and copied them for trial use on 500 or less Mosin Nagants?

The USSR bought them from Geco.

The Soviet made PE and PEM scopes, which are based on Zeiss scopes, numbered in thousands. 500 that were bought in Germany would have been "a drop in a bucket".

 

[ij70]

ij70 - just so that I understand....with Geco being a German company (?) this purchase must have been either before or after the German invasion of Russia? And I assume that the Russians abandoned the project?

Oh shit! Time for a history lesson.

Soviet Union and Germany had a very close military, scientific and economic relationships from about 1922 to 1935/36. They signed several treaties:
Treaty of Rapallo, signed 1922
Berlin Friendship Treaty of 1924

The Soviet published materials say that they started making sniper rifles for NKVD in 1927-1928. I assume that is when they bought scopes and mounts too.

And Soviets did not abandon this program, it was in place until 1941. In 1941 Soviets were forced by circumstances to switch to simpler mass produceable and less powerful PU scope.

 

[ij70]

I assume the "circumstances" you reference were known as Operation Barbarossa.

Soviets won the war with their blood. Over 12 million military killed compared to a fraction of that from the other Allied coutries combined.

Yes, the NAZI Germany invasion of USSR on June 22, 1941.

With allies like France, Italy, who needs enemies?

 

[ij70]

Yeah, the same way the Gestapo dealt with law enforcement!

NKVD were the murderous thugs that did the political executions, oversaw the deportations of Cossacks and other nationalities that Stalin obliterated, shot deserters under Order No. 227, shot those who stopped charging ahead during the human wave assaults, etc.

They also ran the slave labor camps in the arctic and Siberia and executed all political and common criminals in Kiev, Brest, Lvov, Sebastopol, etc. in the face of the Nazi juggernaut before each of these cities was captured by the Germans.

The only legitimate part of the NKVD, IMO, were the OSMBON which were Motorized Infantry Brigades and were precursors to the Spetznatz.

For a good discussion about life under Stalin during WW2, read "Ivans War - Life and Death in the Red Army, 1939-1945 by Catherine Merridale.

They also used sniper rifles...