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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I picked up another $89 Hex reciever gun today and the salesman said it was an "ex Dragoon". How does one tell? I did note that the bosses around the sling slots were different.

The gun only has one major part that isn't Iszhevsk and that's the cocking piece which is Tula. All other parts, including the magazine have the old bow and arrow. Unlike all the other rifles we bought that day, it also came with a leatherette pouch that had all the cleaning rod fittings and an Ishy stamped multi tool. The receiver is 1920 Iszhevsk production.

There were four of us that went into this shop and one by one we bought rifles. The first was a 1935 Hex that was the first gun for a new collector, the next was a 1930 Hex, then a 1928, then they pulled out this 1923. When I asked how many more they had he said, "bout a hundred..."

Uh-oh.... ~Andy
 

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You can tell it's an ex-Dragoon because it's dated before 1930 and is in M91/30 configuration.

The pouch is for ammo, three stripper clips of five rounds each per side, bullets down. The cleaning tools and bottle go in a small fabric "envelope" type pouch, which probably didn't come with the rifle.

How did a tool from Ishapore get in with a Mosin?
 

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Not this again.....
 

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Not this again.....
Sorry Sean. It is really simple. There was something like a Table of Organization of Russian Imperial Army published in 1911, it contains the eleven Dragoon Regiments that existed at that time, I can name all eleven for you.

Can you name at least one Dragoon Regiment that existed in 1923? I will even give you lots of room to find it, if you can not find one on the list of active units, then find one on the list of reserve units. Is it fair?



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Discussion Starter #11
I guess I opened an old wound. Sorry.
Thanks for the link. The barrel markings match but nothing else. Other than the barrel markings, the gun looks standard 91/30. On second look, the bolsters at the sling swivel cuts look the same as the other guns. I admit, I am mostly a Brit and Finn guy and know little about Russian guns. The Brit influence and the late hour probably made me type "Ishy" instead of "Izzy" with regards to the tool. The tool and the cleaning rig came in a separate leatherette pouch as described. Odd considering all my other guns came with a green canvas pouch with only the tool inside.

It is really a beautiful rifle. The finish is blued VS that flat black refurb finish, and the markings are distinct and sharp. It almost looks as though the gun was restocked and shipped without a metal refinish. The shop selling these guns only puts one gun out at a time so it's hard to browse for interesting dates, and they won't accommodate you by pulling them out for your inspection. Too bad.~Andy
 

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No Dragoon rifles after 1919? They built what...17.5 million copies (1930 to 1945) of the "Dragoon" rifle - albeit with improved sights - long after there were any horse soldiers to use them. I get that idea from the title of an article by Karl-Heinz Wrobel, "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle Model 91/30: The Last Dragoon Rifle". (http://www.mosinnagant.net/USSR/Soviet-M9130.asp) The 91/30 model is an "updated Dragoon" rifle. It is more about the rifles design - length and features - than how many units with horses existed to carry them on any particular date. DDR
 

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Arguing semantics to a point is valid -- but it can get rediculous. Just because the nature of the military unit changed doesn't mean the military jargon changes. The U.S. military still has cavalry units even though nobody rides horses into battle.

Unless we all start speaking Russian, we won't be 100% correct.
 

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The Brit influence and the late hour probably made me type "Ishy" instead of "Izzy" with regards to the tool.
Freudian slip. My main thing is Finnish rifles so I often spell finish as Finnish.
 

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You can tell it's an ex-Dragoon because it's dated before 1930 and is in M91/30 configuration.
How can one tell the difference between a '30-'32 ex-Dragoon and a '30-'32 91/30?
Or would it be impossible due to the possibility that any rear sight base would have/could have been used during refurbs?
 

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If it is pre 1932,hex and in 91/30 configuration I just ask the rifle. If I get no reply I assume it is an Ex-Dragoon.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
A photo of the barrel shank.

I guess I get to choose. No matter gents, it is what it is and I like what it is. Here is a photo I managed to get taken. Sorry about the quality.~Andy

 
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