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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When you look at a sight like that you realize just how much stayed in Germany. Then you think why the big importer houses are not bringing it into the USA! Instead we get RC imports because the importers get them for so cheap! If the importers would pony up and go to Germany we would be seeing really rare examples of the K98k.


WWW.SAUER-MILITARIA.DE
 

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Amazingly craptastic. "Nicht nummerngleich" means mismatched. What has you all hot and bothered about a bunch of mismatched and postwar-fudged rifles that have been converted into dewats or blank-firing only? At this point they have no more worth than parts value. Even the condition of these rifles is nothing special. The bulk of nice, original condition Kar.98k's is in the US.
 

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Amazingly craptastic. "Nicht nummerngleich" means mismatched. What has you all hot and bothered about a bunch of mismatched and postwar-fudged rifles that have been converted into dewats or blank-firing only? At this point they have no more worth than parts value. Even the condition of these rifles is nothing special. The bulk of nice, original condition Kar.98k's are in the US.
It is my believe that the bulk of interesting, original WWII K98k's are not in the US. It is my believe that they are still in Europe. Nummerngleich or not (not every K98k came "nummerngleich" out of WWII). It is my believe that they are "released by small numbers" into the international market. To keep a price high you have to present "rarity". Tons of WWII weapons are kept away from interested individual buyers to raise the price (this goes on for decades know, 99,9% of the people haven't even a clue!).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Still

I don't read German so the down side was not apparent. But the K98k codes on the sight were all very rare. They had codes like bcd/ar ZF41 models in large numbers. Then the truly rare codes like ax/ar, bcd/bnz, and single rune 1942,1943, and 1944 showed up! I was impressed with what they had available! From what I could translate not all the K98k examples were demilled. I still don't believe that all the K98k rifles of World War II have found a home in the USA. I think the military made it hard for the GI's to take home captures and the vast bulk of the K98k rifles remained in Europe or got exported to third world nations during the cold war!
 

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It is my believe that the bulk of interesting, original WWII K98k's are not in the US. It is my believe that they are still in Europe. Nummerngleich or not (not every K98k came "nummerngleich" out of WWII). It is my believe that they are "released by small numbers" into the international market. To keep a price high you have to present "rarity". Tons of WWII weapons are kept away from interested individual buyers to raise the price (this goes on for decades know, 99,9% of the people haven't even a clue!).
So you think 900 Euros for a mismatched Kar.98k that has been converted into a non-firing "Deko" piece is a deal? That price is roughly $1,150 US by todays currency exchange values. $1,150 will purchase a matching, original condition Kar.98k in better condition here, even on the internet where prices tend to run high. Original condition Kar.98k's changed hands at LOW prices in the US from the end of the war until roughly the mid-1980's when the collectors market began to take off. For every matching condition, original rifle in a collection here, likely 4-5 were converted into deer slayers and/or eventually parts. Prior to the collector market taking off here, these rifles were viewed as something akin to junk (like Turkish Mausers were seen 10 years ago). So, you are saying that in the more or less 40 year period following the war when these rifles were in low demand, that crafty Europeans held onto their supplies of primo collectors pieces, knowing that some day the market would shift and they would be valuable? Nope. Not buying it.
 

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It is my believe that the bulk of interesting, original WWII K98k's are not in the US. It is my believe that they are still in Europe. Nummerngleich or not (not every K98k came "nummerngleich" out of WWII). It is my believe that they are "released by small numbers" into the international market. To keep a price high you have to present "rarity". Tons of WWII weapons are kept away from interested individual buyers to raise the price (this goes on for decades know, 99,9% of the people haven't even a clue!).
Doesn't fly in the US, may work in Europe, but due to customs and ATF regs in the states, there is no way to bring "interesting, original WWII K98k's" into this country, and since this country is where the big money is paid, how would this plan help keep the price high?

That is a cool site though, and I do believe dewats have a place....I would love to be able to buy the inactivated stuff they can buy in Europe and Canada, like the MG's...

Look, we aren't going to get an more amnesties in this country, and I am not at this point going to consider spending 30k on a cool MG-34 or 42....so I would love to be able to by the stuff you can buy elsewhere. Canada makes great DEWATs...you can cycle the actions, disassmble like the real thing...they are great display pieces. But even though they are acceptable in Canada which has more draconian gun laws than us, ATF won't allow them here.

I would love that kriegsmarine 20mm Oerlikon he has listed....
 

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I don't read German so the down side was not apparent. But the K98k codes on the sight were all very rare. They had codes like bcd/ar ZF41 models in large numbers. Then the truly rare codes like ax/ar, bcd/bnz, and single rune 1942,1943, and 1944 showed up! I was impressed with what they had available! From what I could translate not all the K98k examples were demilled. I still don't believe that all the K98k rifles of World War II have found a home in the USA. I think the military made it hard for the GI's to take home captures and the vast bulk of the K98k rifles remained in Europe or got exported to third world nations during the cold war!
I didn't see a single rifle on that site which wasn't either blank-fire only or deactivated. I also didn't see a single example listed as numbers matching. I stopped looking after about ten rifles. I try to save the word "rare" for things that one almost never sees. ax/ar, bcd/bnz--yeah rare. bcd/ar and rune rifles are uncommon (still desirable, just not in the rare category). All the Kar.98k's didn't come here but the bulk of the remaining rifles in collectible condition (matching, original condition) are here. The Europeans modified and/or destroyed the bulk of theirs. Many others went to third world nations. One other thing about that site is that most of their photos don't show much. An example of one that does show a detail is the swp 45. Their example shows a three digit serial number and defaced firing proofs. swp 45's didn't come with three digit serial numbers during the war.
 

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Appreciate the link, very interesting. However, I think that the vast majority of K98ks in original condition are here in the US. They were brought into this country in huge numbers by returning veterans an occupation troops. The excess were bought up by milsrup dealers like Interarms by the Conex container full and sold from the 40s through the 70s during the hay day of milsurp importation. Europe didn't need K98ks. In fact, Europe was transisting to the FAL and G3. Europe needed cash to rebuild.

Those rifles left in Europe were overhauled, such as the RCs, dewatted, etc. The rifles you see sold by this company are those overhauled rifles. Of course, if hoards of them are found, I doubt they'll make it here and I doubt they'll be released into Europe without being dewatted given the stringent laws. Furthermore, they would have turned up in the last 20 years. The vast majority of the world's nice, original condition K98ks are here in the US. That's not "national boasting", that's reality. I remember hearing of "vast quantities of nice K98ks" coming from Europe back in the 80s. Those were RCs and from Romania. Those are mixmasters, refurbs, and parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Going To Disagree

Yeah too many K98k rifles were sporterized in the USA after the war. But in the 20 years I have looked for all types of German small arms from WWII the pickings of all original, all matching, non-import marked have been slim. My personal experience has not mirrored yours Pisgah. So I am going to have to say that by in large they are not in the USA. If you were fortunate enough to build a representative collection of German small arms more power to you. What I had I sold in 2005 so it is all kind of moot for me now! And anyone trying to start a collection in 2008 better have big bucks, and your still going to be taken with RC bonker jobs!
 

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It is my believe that the bulk of interesting, original WWII K98k's are not in the US. It is my believe that they are still in Europe. Nummerngleich or not (not every K98k came "nummerngleich" out of WWII). It is my believe that they are "released by small numbers" into the international market. To keep a price high you have to present "rarity". Tons of WWII weapons are kept away from interested individual buyers to raise the price (this goes on for decades know, 99,9% of the people haven't even a clue!).

The K98 Conspiracy Theory!
 

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Winchester: The k98's are delivered by the illuminati via the black helicopters.

Not even discussing all the vet bring back weapons, huge loads of matching imports came into the USA in the early 50's when they were still cheap. Import marked 8mm or Germany they are the next best thing to Vet bring back gun.

Germany is probably the last place I'd be looking for quality k98's these days. Western Europe was cleaned out long ago, Eastern and Central Europe were pretty much picked through in the 90's. We all know about the Russian guns.
 

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one good thing about rc's is that they were abundant enough to help data people like simson getter bigger sheets. another good thing is it boosted the interest of k98s. i for one am not a big rc fan and own only one but it is pretty rare one and i am happy i have it. it is relatively accurate also although i don't shoot it anymore.
 

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umm. good topic.
Ill chime in, my comments are in two areas. one is rifles/pistols, the other is 'militaria' IE non weapon type collectibles.
on the rifle/pistol issue? America hands down. you see, here, per the constitution of the united states, ownership is a personal right. im more a 'trader/shooter' than a 'numbers' person, and i own at any given time 20-25 guns. right in my home. easy. no cops, not licence,and i can buy a k98 with cash from private individual. cant mail it, with out a licence, but face to face is OK. so... for example i just walked into a farm barn and saw 50 rifles and pistols a old man had collected over the years. several of these members have 50 or more mausers. you just CANT do that in Europe without BIG euro. there are gun collections i see at least twice a year from old folk of over 100 guns. that's not counting the collections of 5-10 guns. As to the 'buyer beware' issue here in the states? that's everything from rifles to reclining chairs.
Now... That said, Europe is a GOLD MINE for militaria, same 'buyer beware' rules apply, but you can go to a flea market and find all kinds of real german/allied stuff cheep.
or get family or some friend to keep a eye out, and chat around and things pop up.
so...no reason to throw argue! just a different collecting environment.
 
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