And how many other countries.
Enola Gay to fly again!
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Why shouldn't it? Unless you prefer to continue talking about the hoax
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Screw 'em...they started it, we finished it....
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Screw you, troll.
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Had to throw the B.S. flag early on this one. Visited the Enola Gay two weeks ago, it would take a large crew days just to get the other planes out of the way, get the B-29 down off the stands, and roll her out of the museum.
By the way, if any of you happen to get near Dulles Airport in Washington D.C. the museum is worth the time. They have the prototype Space Shuttle "Enterprise", an Air France Concord, the original Boeing 707, and many more aircraft in a nice setting. The roof of the museum is white, unlike the Wright Patterson Museum (that roof is black). This makes photography much easier.
Be aware it's $15 to park your car, but the museum itself is free.
By the way, if any of you happen to get near Dulles Airport in Washington D.C. the museum is worth the time. They have the prototype Space Shuttle "Enterprise", an Air France Concord, the original Boeing 707, and many more aircraft in a nice setting. The roof of the museum is white, unlike the Wright Patterson Museum (that roof is black). This makes photography much easier.
Be aware it's $15 to park your car, but the museum itself is free.
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The Collings Foundations does this tour every year. Usually a B17, B24 and B25 fly together to various cities. A P51C Mustang also tags along. The prices for rides are ~$425 for the bombers and $2200 for the P51.
See link for schedule,
http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_schedule-wof.htm
Last year, a ME 262 (two seater) was suppose to fly with the group but couldn't make the trip. This is one of the two ME 262 that were fullscale reproductions of the original. There are some reports that the ME 262 may become part of the flying tour at the end of May.
- tge
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One has to wonder if the whole hoax was intended to get the "were we right to use the a bomb" contraversy stirred up. Well I feel compelled to to bite, although maybe unwisely. I am sorry, in advance, if I offend anyone but I must express an opinion. Opinion is the only free speach that has no limitation so I will use it. Others can differ.
It is highly likely that there were less Japanese lives lost because of the bomb than would have been lost in an invasion. Of course, even assuming that is true, if you or yours were personally impacted by the bomb you will not think that way. Just not much consulation.
WW2 was already a "total war" including bombing civiliian targets long before we even entered the war. The Germans bombed civilians in Poland, England, name any country you can name especially on the eastern front. The Japanese bombed and killed civilians in China and elsewhere. They dropped Bulbonic plague flees on the Chinese. The Genieva convention was not followed by either side in the Pacific. One basic principle of law in nearly every system ever devised is that to have a claim of wrongdoing the complaining party must have clean hands and not also be guilty of such wrongdoing. I am certain that neither side in the Pacific(nor most partys in the ETO) had clean hands, both/all were engaged in total war and as a result neither side has a legitimate claim that the other was "bad" or "wrong". The first to get the bomb was gonna use it and both the Japanese and Germans had a program. We just finished first and we did use it. It was inevitiable. As a result, IMO, anyone that is critical of that use has faulty reasoning or is basing that conclusion on emotion. It does seem that use of the bomb has so far had another good effect. The world has seen how ugly this is and it has discouraged its use since then.
It is highly likely that there were less Japanese lives lost because of the bomb than would have been lost in an invasion. Of course, even assuming that is true, if you or yours were personally impacted by the bomb you will not think that way. Just not much consulation.
WW2 was already a "total war" including bombing civiliian targets long before we even entered the war. The Germans bombed civilians in Poland, England, name any country you can name especially on the eastern front. The Japanese bombed and killed civilians in China and elsewhere. They dropped Bulbonic plague flees on the Chinese. The Genieva convention was not followed by either side in the Pacific. One basic principle of law in nearly every system ever devised is that to have a claim of wrongdoing the complaining party must have clean hands and not also be guilty of such wrongdoing. I am certain that neither side in the Pacific(nor most partys in the ETO) had clean hands, both/all were engaged in total war and as a result neither side has a legitimate claim that the other was "bad" or "wrong". The first to get the bomb was gonna use it and both the Japanese and Germans had a program. We just finished first and we did use it. It was inevitiable. As a result, IMO, anyone that is critical of that use has faulty reasoning or is basing that conclusion on emotion. It does seem that use of the bomb has so far had another good effect. The world has seen how ugly this is and it has discouraged its use since then.
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Mike, you certainly have that right. My comments or criticism on the A-bomb being dropped specifically on civlian dense and fairly intact cities are indeed derived from pure emotion. Not only the A-bomb, but I have heard of the Tokyo firebombing horrors of agonizing death and the great grief in finding your family, friends or loved ones burnt to a black crisp directly from my grandparents and my parents, and that does indeed evoke "emotion".
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Edokko, you must understand that we (praise God) have not experienced things like this happening to our immediate families. The politics of war matter little when loved ones have suffered & died.
I'm glad that you primarily fault the parties that started the whole mess - the militarists with the consent of Hirohito. This is what governments that operate beyond the will of the people cause.
There is another Civil War quote I'd like to use here (hope I get this one right
)"It is good that war is so terrible - lest we grow too fond of it"
Robt. E Lee
Maybe if we has as much wisdom as intelligence we'd do away with war. Nice thought but it doesn't look likely
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I understand, appreciate and respect that. The firebombings were even more fatal in numbers than the A bomb. This includes Dresden as well. It should evoke emotion and I regret that you and your family had to face that. Hopefully, with your high intelligence you can also understand that it is important to try and look at the issue objectively as well. That being said, I can understand that would be difficult and I can not relate directly to that point of view.
Dogs follow up to your point is well taken. We must insist on a goverment that operates subject to the will of the people. The Japanese and the Germans did not have that control of their gov.. The leaders, Hitler and his hinchmen and Tito and his chronies, who lead the masses to slauder are the real villians that deserve the blame and agonizing death. Not the service men and flyers doing their job, often to their own disquest and a lifetime of guilt, who did their jobs to end the war and to utimately save lives. I think that is unfair to them and America as a whole to hold them responsible for what was done. They and the American leaders were doing a very difficult job and making very difficult and unpleasant decisions on how to end the ugly war that it was. This type of war is not personal. Unfortunately the innocent people who are powerless to stop the evil Axis leadership, and those forced to risk their lives to stop them are the ones that payed the price for their evil.
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You're right - Exxon and Shell donating something? ROFLMAO
One thing though - when you actually step into one of those old birds - it makes you wonder how they ever did such a great job. To fly in one would be a great goal to reach (for me).
I had the chance in the late 1980's to thoroughly examine and completely crawl through a B-17 that had crashed at an air show and was sitting on supports with its wings removed at Beaver County Airport near pittsburgh. You could check everything out for as long as you liked (I don't think many people outside of the aviation community knew it was there.) That was NOT an airplane that a tall or large man could quickly maneuver through! It sure was a fascinating and ineresting experience.
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