[Jersey Jubal]

What can members here tell me about an Enfield P14 (or M1917 American Enfield) converted to fire 7.62x54R ammo? The local shop took one in, he wants $550 (USD). The stock is unsporterized, the pointing arrow for elevation is missing on the left forestock but the plate with graduations is still intact. I'm unsure as to which model this is exactly, stampings aren't as plentiful as on my No.3 or No.4 Enfields.

I checked Gunbroker just to see if there were any .303 British barrels available to get an idea on price if I wanted to restore it (sans gunsmithing cost) but none were listed.

Was the .303 British or 30.06 Springfield to 7.62x54R a common conversion when Rush-Shin ammo was cheap?

After seeing everyone's restorations here I figured this might be a candidate but won't pull the trigger until I determine exactly what I'm looking at and I hear back from you guys. The shop owner hasn't been much help, all he seems to know is the caliber, it seems it was included in a collection he bought.

 

[john.k]

If the rifle is all original,and not savagely sanded ,then IMHO $550 is a good price........I assume the factory barrel has been rechambered .........I wouldnt worry too much about the rechamber ,myself.............Incidentally,the bolt face must be enlarged ,making a return to 303 B problematic.

 

[john.k]

Checked the dimensions,and to clear out the 303 chamber with 7.62R,youd need to set the barrel back......so look in the chamber,or see a fired case from the rifle ,otherwise a straight rechamber will leave a double shoulder.....not detrimental if you throw away fired cases.

 

[Jersey Jubal]

If the rifle is all original,and not savagely sanded ,then IMHO $550 is a good price........I assume the factory barrel has been rechambered .........I wouldnt worry too much about the rechamber ,myself.............Incidentally,the bolt face must be enlarged ,making a return to 303 B problematic.

Thank you. With the current price of 7.62x54 no one is saving any money after the conversion from .303 British and I really don't want to be placing yet another caliber in my inventory, .22 cal, 9mm, .38 Special, .45ACP, 20 Gauge, .223/5.56, 7.63x39, and .303 British is enough.

 

[Jersey Jubal]

Checked the dimensions,and to clear out the 303 chamber with 7.62R,youd need to set the barrel back......so look in the chamber,or see a fired case from the rifle ,otherwise a straight rechamber will leave a double shoulder.....not detrimental if you throw away fired cases.

The last thing I'd want to do is throw away casings (unless they're steel) as I reload my .303 Brit with a basic Lee Loader (Classic) Kit.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

Not 7.62 Russian but - in the UK the P14 (No3) rifle is a regular conversion to 7.62 (NATO) it was very popular many years ago but has now very little interest (if any) from collectors and there are very few who will use 7.62 for 'game' in the UK.

There is a regular firearms auction I attend, and you can virtually guarantee there will be at least one sporterised 7.62 No3 in each auction.

They have little value and normally fetch around £100 (+ buyers commision) unless there is something special, such as a PH5B sight (value £150) attached.

I am aware that 7.62 is a more readily used round in the US and a 7.62 rifle will have agreater value than in the UK.

Edit to add :

Just looked thru the last catalogue and no No3 conversions but there were two No4 conversions (see example Lot115)

 

[john.k]

A set of non Indian DP (uncut) wood plus steel furniture here would sell readily for US$550/AUS $750.....A P14 bolt body (blued) sold online for A$250 .

 

[Mk VII]

Altering .303s to other cartridges is not popular here, where the system of firearms control is structured to discourage people from doing things like this, which create bureaucratic problems for the police . Also 7.62x54 is not particularly cheap here.

 

[JB White]

Don’t get any hopes up about finding a spare P14 barrel either. As an emergency wartime rifle spares weren’t exactly part of the equation. Getting a spare relies on finding a used takeoff from a parted out rifle.

You nailed it as to the reasons they were converted. It was frowned upon by most. The cheap ammo supply only lasted a few years until the pallets of surplus ammo dried up almost as quickly as it appeared.
In spite of being forewarned, some impulsive short-sighted people chose to do it anyway.

Conditions you describe fall in line with the Weedon Repair Standards (WRS). Missing volley sights, plugged or removed stock disc, no piling swivel etc etc.

If you’re looking for a representative of a British rifle, you may want to keep looking.
Unless you decide to associate it to postwar Eastern Europe or something as a means to help justify the conversion to a commie cartridge?

 

[DaveFromSheffield]

The stock is unsporterized, the pointing arrow for elevation is missing on the left forestock but the plate with graduations is still intact. I'm unsure as to which model this is exactly, stampings aren't as plentiful as on my No.3 or No.4 Enfields.

Based on your description it would indicate the rifle carrying a P.14 stock since M1917 rifles do not have that plate on the left forestock.
M1917 rifles are inscribed with "US MODEL OF 1917" on the receiver, followed by the full manufacturers name, whereas the P.14 rifles are only RE or ERA marked, or even only with a W prefix to the serial for Winchester.

In my opinion the converstion to 7.62x54R would make more sense for the P.14 since both are rimmed cartridges. But make sure that this is actually the case with the particular gun, or if someone just got it wrong.

PS: there were even 8x57 conversions outcarried on the P.14 rifle in Belgium post WWI.

 

[MW2152]

Any chance that this rifle was a Korean War bring back, perhaps a rifle sent to the Chinese at some point and then converted to 7.62x54R, thrown into military service that way then sent to Korea and later brought home by a GI?

Or perhaps converted by Viet Cong and then brought back as a Vietnam War souvenir?

 

[me26245]

The P14/17's are notorious for being hard to remove barrels from without cracking the receiver's. I had a P14 that had this happen to when the smith removed the barrel.

 

[DaveFromSheffield]

The P14/17's are notorious for being hard to remove barrels from without cracking the receiver's. I had a P14 that had this happen to when the smith removed the barrel.

Actually that happens if you have bad tooling or afix the receiver in the wrong position. After probably 12 barrels I can confirm they are sitting extremely tight and the noise they make when they finally come out makes you first think you broke the whole rifle into pieces. A reason for them sitting so tight is the square type threading.

 

[Jersey Jubal]

Any chance that this rifle was a Korean War bring back, perhaps a rifle sent to the Chinese at some point and then converted to 7.62x54R, thrown into military service that way then sent to Korea and later brought home by a GI?

Or perhaps converted by Viet Cong and then brought back as a Vietnam War souvenir?

The dealer has no info on the rifle save for caliber. He took in a Carcano M91/38 and an Inland M1A1 Paratrooper Carbine at the same time, he wants $1,100.00 for the latter. As for the Carcano it's the first time I had one in my hands, no way Oswald got off three well aimed shots with that piece of crap in the amount of time they claim, it's operation is as clunky as hell.

 

[Blighty]

Not 7.62 Russian but - in the UK the P14 (No3) rifle is a regular conversion to 7.62 (NATO) it was very popular many years ago but has now very little interest (if any) from collectors and there are very few who will use 7.62 for 'game' in the UK.

There is a regular firearms auction I attend, and you can virtually guarantee there will be at least one sporterised 7.62 No3 in each auction.

They have little value and normally fetch around £100 (+ buyers commision) unless there is something special, such as a PH5B sight (value £150) attached.

I am aware that 7.62 is a more readily used round in the US and a 7.62 rifle will have agreater value than in the UK.

Edit to add :

Just looked thru the last catalogue and no No3 conversions but there were two No4 conversions (see example Lot

I was at that auction!

Badly faked No5 and a poor No4.

Picked up a few shotguns for next to nowt.

Not 7.62 Russian but - in the UK the P14 (No3) rifle is a regular conversion to 7.62 (NATO) it was very popular many years ago but has now very little interest (if any) from collectors and there are very few who will use 7.62 for 'game' in the UK.

There is a regular firearms auction I attend, and you can virtually guarantee there will be at least one sporterised 7.62 No3 in each auction.

They have little value and normally fetch around £100 (+ buyers commision) unless there is something special, such as a PH5B sight (value £150) attached.

I am aware that 7.62 is a more readily used round in the US and a 7.62 rifle will have agreater value than in the UK.

Edit to add :

Just looked thru the last catalogue and no No3 conversions but there were two No4 conversions (see example Lot115)

View attachment 4065278

Ah…Scotarms auction. I was at that one. Fake No5 if I remember correctly. Picked up a pile of shotguns for not very much.

 

[Blighty]

Forgive the above…poor use of the quote button.

 

[Alan De Enfield]

Forgive the above…poor use of the quote button.

Yes - usable shotguns are often making £1 each, and sometimes he even 'bundles a few lots' together to even get a single bid.

The problem now is that they charge you £20 to add it onto your certificate - in the 'old days' there was no charge.
Everyone wants to make money off you.

 

[Blighty]

Indeed. Bundled a very serviceable over and under twelve bore with the unused semi-auto I was after…..for a fiver.

 

[Jersey Jubal]

Thank you all for your contributions to this topic, I'm going to pass on this P14 as I'm not a fan of caliber conversions. Sadly the last P14 I saw was at a country auction where a large collection was being sold off just after the Chy-Nah Scamdemic reopening, it fetched over $1000 (USD), way out of my price range.

If any member IS interested in the rifle PM me and I'll provide the shop's name/contact info.