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· Gold bullet with Oak Clusters member
15,626 Posts

· Premium Member
657 Posts
The governments don't own the power plants, they regulate them. In the face of newer clean air standards the *power companies* are deciding to shut down the coal plants instead of modernizing them. They are deciding to convert to gas, because it's a business decision. They automatically meet the new particulate and CO2 levels by switching to gas, which helps make it a cost effective investment. It's dollars and cents. And it's happening everywhere there isn't a local coal industry. The pipeline issues cited will work themselves out.

I'm a bit surprised a conservative publication like the Spectator would go this route. It's modern capitalism at work. The people, through their representatives, decide on what they want their world to be and business adapts to meet the need and make a profit.

· Diamond Member
13,558 Posts
I have been posting about this coming for sometime.. I strongly believe that there is a good chance that SHTF is going to be a slow collapse with folks gradually getting priced out of utilities and basic necessities.

Electricity is obvious now, actually has been for sometime.. but water and trash pick-up ( lack of cheap places to dump trash and garbage, hence rate increases there as well) food, clothing ( fiber or food, farmers are going to have to choose .. just like with fuel or food now)

the article didn't mention that the whole nuclear fleet is aging out .. 104 reactors , no news ones started for about 40 years.. the normal life of a reactor.. most the reactors are on license extensions now for another 20 years, 6 have been shut down because againg reactors get expensive to operate and they can't make a profit competing with nat gas.. Only 2 possible new reactors and 2 that they have started to build on again off again as problems arise.. those 104 reactors are 20% of the electrical supply.

Article implies that the crunch could come in the next year or two.. I recommend home solar.. but you need some independent affordable personal electricity supply.. water catchment .. home garden ... I don't think you have to go completely off the grid and I think the SHTF can happen and you still have to go to work everyday and you can still shop at real stores.. you just won't be able to afford half the stuff you need... if you can make up the missing half with a solar panel or two or 20 , a rain barrel, a garden , some cheap and reliable way to get to work, alternatives to the popular and "normal" way of living that will no longer be affordable, a back up 2nd career or some home business that is needed in hard times.. develop the contacts now that might lead to a replacement job, or second job..

And Gonzo, I disagree, if this was capitalism, supply would automagically follow demand.. That is why the Spectator in on this, the ability to meet supply is being thwarted. The lack of maintaining infrastructure and expanding it to meet needs is what this is about.. real world, that means , under capitalism, toll roads would pick up the slack if the government doesn't or can't build the roads and bridges .. and the pipelines.

This is what the crumbling infrastructure means, electricity is just part of it, and all the parts are going to get more expensive and in short supply.. while the odds are your income/ purchasing power is going to remain unchanged or become less. Sacrifices will have to be made. when it hits , or prepping will have to happen now.

· Gold Bullet Member/Moderator/Administrator/
27,866 Posts
.... I'm a bit surprised a conservative publication like the Spectator would go this route. It's modern capitalism at work. The people, through their representatives, decide on what they want their world to be and business adapts to meet the need and make a profit.

That's the problem. Congress has been sidestepped by the EPA, and don't have the balls to take back what is rightfully their legislative place.
So let the NE sit in the dark.

· Copper Bullet member
4,870 Posts
Extreme cold last winter and the increased demand for electricity ... many missed the report that large sections of the grid were one power plant away from collapse.
Lots of articles on the fragile power grid. Outdated, outmoded, vulnerable, overstretched capacity. Not to mention, we have broadcast to the world, and the terrorists, just how vulnerable it is.
Test runs on disabling sub-stations? The several attacks sure do look like trial runs and some probing. Oh, and reports that it is also wide open to internet attacks and hacking.
Great year for solar flares! We dodged a few potentially devastating ones. A direct hit could wipe us out.
EMP from a nuke? And we don't think every enemy of the US is fully aware of that? Not nukes raining down on our cities, ala 1950's type scares but a single EMP over a select area and we could be in the stone ages again.

Solar? Getting cheaper and more efficient by the day but still only a fractional percentage of power generation.
Farm fields and open areas around here increasingly growing crops of solar panels and the largest utility in the region has put one on every telephone pole you can find (thanks to grants and federal funding) and it still amounts to a small fraction of total output.
Then there is the fire danger ... older units on rooftops of those commercial enterprises that went "green" a few years back. Lost a major warehouse and large business last year in a nearby town when fire started in the solar array on the roof and firefighters couldn't do much about it because of the electrocution hazard. Hundreds of jobs and millions in tax revenue up in smoke.

Seriously considering a whole house Generac backup as I have natural gas but, nobody seems to be able to answer the question of how long the gas will flow if the grid collapses and no electric to the pump stations that supply the pipelines. There is a huge NG distribution station in the area. Lots of pipes and valves off a major NE corridor pipeline but never saw anything that resembles a generating station to power it. It must require electricity as it has a major link to large high voltage lines across the highway.

· Copper Bullet member
4,870 Posts

· Diamond Bullet Member
10,360 Posts
Self sufficiency re: power and food depends on geography - as the CA drought is driving home. Streams and even wells are now going dry and even in normal years there's no rain 5-7 months of the year. I wonder if anyone has ever made a list of ideal survival locations - mild climate, long growing season, consistent rainfall through the year. You can adapt to the harshest conditions as Caribou aptly demonstrates but some locations must be a whole lot better than others.

· Silver Bullet member
55,644 Posts
Petrov West Virginia....water coming out the hill mt air...hunting fishing.....abundant...
We have been surviving hard time all of a 100 years...coal up down booms ..

They have closed doe over 5 cola fire electric plants in last two half years more in pen and kuntecky across the state lines, even in va......
Coal permits in possible to get...except Russian, Germans, Chinese not even they can stay open...
Leaving owing taxes...Russians taken to court paid up two weeks ago half....on over a million owed to county!
Lay laid off county many workers because of losses of coal revenues ....

Last strip mines already oked up behind my house...just started month ago!....
He has I know him a great rating by state fed...reclaiming the environment correctly....without forced measures!

I believe it will be a slow slow phases out products all ready missing form shelves going unnoticed. Now to less and less showing up on less ammo....
then one day not enough to keep shelves stocked daily or all a day not availed even at the highest price like 22 cal...
Then amounts restricted by days, odd or even, by first letters in last name....
Even medicines ....( I have cut my doses in half.....using old stock replaced by current with no ill effects monitored closely maybe 5 months worth? Set aside.

Running black outs will take out frozen bought up foods.....been stocking up on wood to smoke my meats, and salt....pepper keeps the flys off fresh kills...

The shape shifting changes will bring our global attentions back to home...
Bank holidays will be frequent....
Gas lines days rationed , lengths will make the 1970's look like a drive though at McDonnell's ...a long wait for much of nothing...
Homes will run down like Detroit smells like the dumps next door...rats will be dinners for some and and some w be dinner for the one able to burry the dead without meds, food, clean water, sanitation.....a return of the dark ages...after Maths .....

Least of our problems electric most of our problems mental health....

Yes we will. Be in the dark...ages.....
Solar lights I have bought up cheep used during power outages .....greater than candles....
I burnt 7 candles with out heat in the house had the bedroom up to 75 degrees...went to bed many covers..
Got up did it again at night save the kerosine for day time...and cooking ...put up 15 30 gallo containers for the store we had cooking oil know when I'll need them?
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