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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's another one for you. I'm wondering if they aren't working their way to the back of the storage bunker with some stuff. The Navy midi tunics I bought had some with the SMALL size tags, reportedly early issue[???], the Navy Mutze I got was dated 1974. Now these. Note the lack of the cuff title. It has the metal collar tabs, though, for an officer. Post 89? I gather the cuff titles were left off during certain periods.
 

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This is likely to be yet another dark collar tunic modified to have a plain collar and worn open. They are identified by the spacing of the buttons which is different from that of a genuine open collar tunic. If you observe the topmost button, this is in general level or below the breast pocket flaps in an open collar tunic, but ABOVE those in a five button tunic, that is one that buttons up to the neck, like in this one. It is an open question why they started butchering dark collar tunics that would be very precious nowadays. Probably an attempt at saving money and recycle existing tunics already produced. By construction these are all early tunics. Indeed their date codes often pre-date 1974 and the introduction of the open collar. This also means that the cuff titlke had not been introduced yet. GT tunics of the early 1970s can be found with a cuff title that has been obviously been added later, but they are genuine. The photograph is not good enough to see much of the collar tabs. It is often the case that early tunics (or FDA) that have survived are in very small sizes, because they were not issued.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
When did they start to use the cuff titles? These were at SG. It looks like their buyer has started to get into some stuff that's 70's or even before. Apparently they had some coats with the parade bars on the cuffs a while back. Just when, aprox., did the small size tags [that's the tag itself] in the collar get replaced with the larger? I gather these are older. This particular coat, in the photo, has the metal officers' collar tabs. They only have what they call a "medium" side, which could means it could be a 44 [U.S. size 34] as I've ordered "large" and gotten size 48's from them in the summer tunics and midis. Here's the link that allows a closer view.
http://shop.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=459601
 

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I forget the precise date but I think the GT cuff title is 1975-76 because it all had to do with reduction in conventional forces agreed at the Helsinki conference. Granting the GT a cuff title was an attempt at excluding them from the conventional troops whose numbers had to be reduced... Window dressing... Never mind. As for the size label, I can say that my dark collar tunics are all 1970s dated and all have the horizontal red lettered one. I have seen the smaller ones (blue lettered and vertical) and I think in all cases they were 1960s tunics. At a guess I would say that 1968-69 is when they change. The collar tabs on that tunic are definitely post 1987 but they must have been added, which is normal. A dealer local to me obtains his wares from Sturm and tunics arrive completely plain with the insignia stuffed in a pocket to be added. I was lucky and found a pair of earlier metal collar tabs that way...
There is no doubt in my mind, having seen a close-up of the collar, that that tunic was not intended to be worn open when it was first made: the lapels fold awkwardly and not completely flat, as it is the norm with an open collar tunic. If we could open it, we are likely to see a cloth insert at the lapel that is meant to cover the buttonhole for the fifth topmost button that would have closed the collar. Tunics like this have appeared before: they are rare but not impossibly rare. They represent an odd attempt that does not appear to have worked very well. No photographic evidence has been found of their being actually used. They might just have been a factory trial run, to see if a conversion was viable. Doing such a run on the least needed size, 44, would make sense.
As for dealers now having reached the bottom of a warehouse where older stuff might be, it is a bit of anybody's guess. It is true that at the same local dealer, I have seen early stuff in odd sizes surface in mint conditions, but probably that was always the case. What is noticeable is that sizes are either small or monstrously large (G60... )
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I forget the precise date but I think the GT cuff title is 1975-76 because it all had to do with reduction in conventional forces agreed at the Helsinki conference. Granting the GT a cuff title was an attempt at excluding them from the conventional troops whose numbers had to be reduced... Window dressing... Never mind. As for the size label, I can say that my dark collar tunics are all 1970s dated and all have the horizontal red lettered one. I have seen the smaller ones (blue lettered and vertical) and I think in all cases they were 1960s tunics. At a guess I would say that 1968-69 is when they change. The collar tabs on that tunic are definitely post 1987 but they must have been added, which is normal. A dealer local to me obtains his wares from Sturm and tunics arrive completely plain with the insignia stuffed in a pocket to be added. I was lucky and found a pair of earlier metal collar tabs that way...
There is no doubt in my mind, having seen a close-up of the collar, that that tunic was not intended to be worn open when it was first made: the lapels fold awkwardly and not completely flat, as it is the norm with an open collar tunic. If we could open it, we are likely to see a cloth insert at the lapel that is meant to cover the buttonhole for the fifth topmost button that would have closed the collar. Tunics like this have appeared before: they are rare but not impossibly rare. They represent an odd attempt that does not appear to have worked very well. No photographic evidence has been found of their being actually used. They might just have been a factory trial run, to see if a conversion was viable. Doing such a run on the least needed size, 44, would make sense.
As for dealers now having reached the bottom of a warehouse where older stuff might be, it is a bit of anybody's guess. It is true that at the same local dealer, I have seen early stuff in odd sizes surface in mint conditions, but probably that was always the case. What is noticeable is that sizes are either small or monstrously large (G60... )
At least with SG, over the last year, it appears that they are getting some older, and odd stuff, like the mystery jacket in a thread below, that were not that common before, IIRC. The summer tunics were mostly 1970's dated, I bought three of the blue wool middys and two had the small 1960's tags for size SG48, and the other an G48 with the big tag. I bought one of the Enlisted Navy Mutze's that was a size 55 [54?] dated 1974. BTW, they have some dark collar overcoats there as well. When were these used?
 
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