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Discussion Starter #21
Are the neighbors Big City folks?
No, just people you don't do biz with. The woman's family and my family have been friends for a long time, however the particular gal has developed a reputation with locals for not paying debts, like buying tons of hay and not paying for it, buying an old tractor and not paying for it....

Poor person to do biz with and not surprised she did what she did....

Pahtu.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Smart to listen to the "hiss". Nice one. Regards, John.
Thank you! Unfortunately I suffer from I have too muchitus, sure the ole collection is not as advanced as many here on the board, but with the storage capacity I currently have, still want and need to move things out of the collection - After the break in I have lost the desire to accumulate & keep a bunch of stuff.

Did not help things when I spotted a real nice 1937 M27 with a very modest BIN price.....Glad to acquire that one....

Pahtu
 

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Pathu

You are one of the very few posters who I don't get grumpy at for not shrinking the size of their photos. love those oldest lot of 28/30's with their serial #ed rear sight bases. Nice cocking piece with the serial # still intact. Is that a E on the top of the tang on the receiver? The only undated one of the 4 28/30's I have owned is an excellent condition a few hundred serial
#'s after yours. Unfortunately it is in a 'new' 1940 dated sky stock. I love the 28 walnut butt stocks updated to 28/30 status. two of my 28/30's had them. I never have figured out how it could have gone through the winter war and continuation war and still be almost unfired.
Nice looking crop of marihuchi in the background. When did you give up growing hops?

: < }
gil
 

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My 1938 28-30 is in a one piece stock - Will try some flat base bullets!

Pahtu.
Use FMJ bullets. The jacket is rolled over the exposed core. Gas pressure behind it opens up the rear of the jacket to obturate - seal - much like the Minie ball. HP flat base bullets have closed bases and they will not seal as well, but they may still shoot better than boat tails. It all depends on the amount of breech erosion.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Pathu

You are one of the very few posters who I don't get grumpy at for not shrinking the size of their photos. love those oldest lot of 28/30's with their serial #ed rear sight bases. Nice cocking piece with the serial # still intact. Is that a E on the top of the tang on the receiver? The only undated one of the 4 28/30's I have owned is an excellent condition a few hundred serial
#'s after yours. Unfortunately it is in a 'new' 1940 dated sky stock. I love the 28 walnut butt stocks updated to 28/30 status. two of my 28/30's had them. I never have figured out how it could have gone through the winter war and continuation war and still be almost unfired.
Nice looking crop of marihuchi in the background. When did you give up growing hops?

: < }
gil
Thats ok gil, even if you griped about the pics, I would still post em like I want to...;)

Yup, a N.E.W. receiver, seems the Finns like American made Mosin receivers!

The area still grows lots of hops :+)

Pahtu.
 

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I wonder if the Finns use of American made m/n's was partly out of pride at the number of their kin who had migrated to the USA? Never was grumpy about your big photos. They are so clear --helps you live east of the mountains their in Washington.
gil
 

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I wonder if the Finns use of American made m/n's was partly out of pride at the number of their kin who had migrated to the USA? Never was grumpy about your big photos. They are so clear --helps you live east of the mountains their in Washington.
gil
The use of US parts probably had to do with the fact that so many US M91s were captured in the Civil War and they made up a large amount of the M91 stockpile for Finland in the early days. Stories from Finland confirm that in one case a trainload of US M91s were captured. Serial number studies show more than a thousand known today in the US in original config (ie still M91 not M28, etc). I have 5 Disc M91s from early unit RT3 (one of my favorite units from 1919) seems to be almost entirely filled with NEW M91s in mostly original condition from the early 1920s. The other one I have from RT3 is a 1917 Sestroryesk -also a VERY common M91 with SA mark in a NEW stock. Sestroryesk was only 70 miles from Helsinki.

By 1933/4, many thousands of front line guns were probably worn out and receivers recycled along with other parts.
 

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The use of US parts probably had to do with the fact that so many US M91s were captured in the Civil War and they made up a large amount of the M91 stockpile for Finland in the early days. Stories from Finland confirm that in one case a trainload of US M91s were captured. Serial number studies show more than a thousand known today in the US in original config (ie still M91 not M28, etc). I have 5 Disc M91s from early unit RT3 (one of my favorite units from 1919) seems to be almost entirely filled with NEW M91s in mostly original condition from the early 1920s. The other one I have from RT3 is a 1917 Sestroryesk -also a VERY common M91 with SA mark in a NEW stock. Sestroryesk was only 70 miles from Helsinki. By 1933/4, many thousands of front line guns were probably worn out and receivers recycled along with other parts.

Nice Sparky! I have I/RT3 410 which I think from memory is naval coastal artillery. It is a 1923 Tula. Mine does not have any Westinghouse parts and looks to have it's original stock. its in decent + condition and looks to have rack storage marks.
 

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I wonder if the Finns use of American made m/n's was partly out of pride at the number of their kin who had migrated to the USA? Never was grumpy about your big photos. They are so clear --helps you live east of the mountains their in Washington.
gil
Reasons for favouring US m91's were quite practical. A short history background will perhaps explain the reasons for high amount of American m91's in Finland and the reasons for their favour:

During the civil war, the Finnish red rebels received arms and ammunition from St. Petersburg, 35.000 rifles in total and 3 million rounds of ammunition. Part of these rifles were unused N.E.W's and Remingtons that were just arrived from the factory. Rifles were sent to Finland by three trains. These deliveries were organised by red activist named Jukka Rahja and his brother Eino Rahja.

The red rebels also obtained m91's from Russian army stationed in Finland. These rifles were used of course.

The whites bought and smuggled arms from Germany as part of the preparation to war for independence. As the war started, the white Civil guard troops overtook Russian arms depots capturing several thousands of rifles.

After the civil war all arms were collected and the ones in good condition were distributed to newly formed Finnish army and Civil Guard units. Many of these almost unused US m91's were of course sent to units and they were considered as being of good quality and thus were highly favourable.

When the Civil Guard started to update and upgrade their rifles to m24's etc. These American rifles, now seen many years of service, were often chosen to be upgraded. It seems, that especially the CG favoured US rifles.

Still, some all original and very little used m91's are sometimes found. They are in the same condition as they were, when dropped off from Rahja's train in 1918. Here's an example of such Remington now belonging to my friend. (If memory serves me right, I think I have posted this picture sometimes before.)




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Reasons for favouring US m91's were quite practical. A short history background will perhaps explain the reasons for high amount of American m91's in Finland and the reasons for their favour:

During the civil war, the Finnish red rebels received arms and ammunition from St. Petersburg, 35.000 rifles in total and 3 million rounds of ammunition. Part of these rifles were unused N.E.W's and Remingtons that were just arrived from the factory. Rifles were sent to Finland by three trains. These deliveries were organised by red activist named Jukka Rahja and his brother Eino Rahja.

The red rebels also obtained m91's from Russian army stationed in Finland. These rifles were used of course.

The whites bought and smuggled arms from Germany as part of the preparation to war for independence. As the war started, the white Civil guard troops overtook Russian arms depots capturing several thousands of rifles.

After the civil war all arms were collected and the ones in good condition were distributed to newly formed Finnish army and Civil Guard units. Many of these almost unused US m91's were of course sent to units and they were considered as being of good quality and thus were highly favourable.

When the Civil Guard started to update and upgrade their rifles to m24's etc. These American rifles, now seen many years of service, were often chosen to be upgraded. It seems, that especially the CG favoured US rifles.

Still, some all original and very little used m91's are sometimes found. They are in the same condition as they were, when dropped off from Rahja's train in 1918. Here's an example of such Remington now belonging to my friend. (If memory serves me right, I think I have posted this picture sometimes before.)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Interesting.

A little side note on this subject - kinda, maybe a little bit.

I have an Estonian friend that was born in 1940. He escaped on a fishing boat to Sweden in August 1944. He remembers his uncles throwing their German uniforms in the sea as they didn't want to be caught as Germans. Anyway, he made it to Sweden, then Montreal, Boston and then Indiana. He has a lot of stories told by his Grandmother as she live to be 102 I think.

An interesting "fact" he's told me: The Finn's that came to the United States during the 1920's were Damn Communists. Period.

It does make a little sense. They lost the civil war over there and weren't welcome so they came over here.
 

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Interesting.

A little side note on this subject - kinda, maybe a little bit.

I have an Estonian friend that was born in 1940. He escaped on a fishing boat to Sweden in August 1944. He remembers his uncles throwing their German uniforms in the sea as they didn't want to be caught as Germans. Anyway, he made it to Sweden, then Montreal, Boston and then Indiana. He has a lot of stories told by his Grandmother as she live to be 102 I think.

An interesting "fact" he's told me: The Finn's that came to the United States during the 1920's were Damn Communists. Period.

It does make a little sense. They lost the civil war over there and weren't welcome so they came over here.
Many left-leaning sympathizers from northern Europe went to northern Minnesota. That is why it is still very liberal in the area to this day.
 

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Interesting.

A little side note on this subject - kinda, maybe a little bit.

I have an Estonian friend that was born in 1940. He escaped on a fishing boat to Sweden in August 1944. He remembers his uncles throwing their German uniforms in the sea as they didn't want to be caught as Germans. Anyway, he made it to Sweden, then Montreal, Boston and then Indiana. He has a lot of stories told by his Grandmother as she live to be 102 I think.

An interesting "fact" he's told me: The Finn's that came to the United States during the 1920's were Damn Communists. Period.

It does make a little sense. They lost the civil war over there and weren't welcome so they came over here.
Hello ole fred,

Yes, you are right. A lot of Finns moved to United States in the 20's - many of them were from labour class looking for a new start, so there must have been people with all political backgrounds, I think.

The scars of the civil war lived long in people's minds as the civil war was cruel and tore even families apart.

Ironically, in 1939, when the communist Soviet Union attacked Finland, people stopped caring, who was on the red side and who was on the white... all were just Finns fighting for their country and freedom.


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Discussion Starter #37
Reasons for favouring US m91's were quite practical. A short history background will perhaps explain the reasons for high amount of American m91's in Finland and the reasons for their favour:

During the civil war, the Finnish red rebels received arms and ammunition from St. Petersburg, 35.000 rifles in total and 3 million rounds of ammunition. Part of these rifles were unused N.E.W's and Remingtons that were just arrived from the factory. Rifles were sent to Finland by three trains. These deliveries were organised by red activist named Jukka Rahja and his brother Eino Rahja.

The red rebels also obtained m91's from Russian army stationed in Finland. These rifles were used of course.

The whites bought and smuggled arms from Germany as part of the preparation to war for independence. As the war started, the white Civil guard troops overtook Russian arms depots capturing several thousands of rifles.

After the civil war all arms were collected and the ones in good condition were distributed to newly formed Finnish army and Civil Guard units. Many of these almost unused US m91's were of course sent to units and they were considered as being of good quality and thus were highly favourable.

When the Civil Guard started to update and upgrade their rifles to m24's etc. These American rifles, now seen many years of service, were often chosen to be upgraded. It seems, that especially the CG favoured US rifles.

Still, some all original and very little used m91's are sometimes found. They are in the same condition as they were, when dropped off from Rahja's train in 1918. Here's an example of such Remington now belonging to my friend. (If memory serves me right, I think I have posted this picture sometimes before.)
Great write up with superb info!

Helps explain my rifle I posted last year.

Not in the great shape like the rifle you posted.....but....my rifle is in pretty darn good shape as it is....;)

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?665625-SA-1917-Remington&highlight=Pahtu

Pahtu.
 

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Great write up with superb info!

Helps explain my rifle I posted last year.

Not in the great shape like the rifle you posted.....but....my rifle is in pretty darn good shape as it is....;)

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?665625-SA-1917-Remington&highlight=Pahtu

Pahtu.
Yes, I actually have seen some Remingtons quite close to your rifle's serial number, so it can very well be from the same shipment. I remember seeing rifles 221xxx and 222xxx. One was with SA-stamp, the other without.

The condition of your rifle is very good, and all matching rifles are very rare, especially with SA-stamp, as the army, for reasons totally beyond understanding, usually just messed them up.


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Yes, I actually have seen some Remingtons quite close to your rifle's serial number, so it can very well be from the same shipment. I remember seeing rifles 221xxx and 222xxx. One was with SA-stamp, the other without.

The condition of your rifle is very good, and all matching rifles are very rare, especially with SA-stamp, as the army, for reasons totally beyond understanding, usually just messed them up.


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SPOV - thanks for better articulating the information I posted above and including the name of the train "Rahja" - I forgot the name. We should start a separate thread about mostly original Finnish Remingtons. I also have one that is almost perfect and EXACTLY as came from the US except it has an SA (no rear sight renumber). There are a number of them that were re-imported to the US and I have seen a few in Finland when visiting. What is interesting to me about all this is that most of them and many of the mismatched are in the 210,xxx-290,xxx range.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Still, some all original and very little used m91's are sometimes found. They are in the same condition as they were, when dropped off from Rahja's train in 1918. Here's an example of such Remington now belonging to my friend. (If memory serves me right, I think I have posted this picture sometimes before.)
Curious - Is the rifle you posted dated 1917 or 1918? I have looked for a SA 1918 dated Remington for a long time, and a couple years ago a member here on the forum, contacted me and sold me a nice example of a SA 1918 Remington Mosin Nagant. By far, most of the SA Remington Mosin Nagants found here in the U.S. are dated 1917.

Pahtu.
 
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