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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
DUST COVERS
arisakadogs Posted - 12/28/2003

I'd like to know what is the opinion of readers as to when the dust cover was deleted?? I heard, somewhere, that it was late in the 5th series for Nagoya rifles. This makes sense to me as metal conservation began at this time. From this point on it's obvious that they were out to save on the amount of steel used and to cut production time. I keep seeing "last ditch" rifles for sale with their "original" dust cover - I'm quite doubtful of this.
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Prez1981

70,000 in the 5th series is the last matching Nagoya cover I have seen. I have three matching covers on Nagoya 5th series rifles and one on a Series 32 TK. I have seen a few 'matching' dust covers with incorrect inspectors marks on them (ie TK marked dc on a Nagoya rifle, etc).
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arisakadogs

That is a very important point! It takes more than the numbers to match an item. The inspection marks & vintage are as important, or more so, than the number!
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Earl

I agree. I've seen a number of 7th, 8th, and even 10th series Nagoya Type 99s with supposedly matching DCs. A few even were Nagoya marked. But I don't think any of them were original to the guns.

Earl
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Jareth

That's the problem with the dust cover matching business. Lets say you find the number your looking for..great but the proofs aren't correct or the finish/blue is different.
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Navybuff

This post as you can see was from two years ago. I am wondering if any opions have changed on the subject, or if anyone is doing any research on this important subject.
It would be great to get even a general idea as to the series each arsenal stopped adding them and if say Jinsen even had any with them.

Kevin
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cartoonist

I'd like to pose an interesting dilemma...

I have a Series 3 Nagoya, unsanded, matching, mum, rod, pod, fine condition, with a dust cover. The dust cover does not match but it is a Nagoya has been on that rifle a long time and is for all intensive purposes "original"... you can tell by the patina and metal color.

So my dilemma is what to do if I come across a truly "matching" dust cover. Probably it will not "match" the rifle's appearance. Let's say this happens.

Which dust cover would be more "correct" and collectable?

Dave
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rcb

I don't know if this helps, but I have a near mint Jinsen ser. no. 387 that has a shiney place in the top groove and two marks on the rear bridge where a cover slid. It does not have a cover on it now. rcb

DAIMYO
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arisakadogs

Unfortunately, these marks could have been done at any point in time. Just trying on a dust cover can do this. I've found that matching covers don't ususally mar the reciever finish except where dirt may have gotten under it, or if the cover is damaged.

rcb, you sure pulled this post out from the past! Over a year old!
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RickV

I have a Jinsen, s/n 9446, with matching dustcover. It came from the vet in 1967, I purchased it from original buyer in 2003.

I also have a Mukden Type 38, crested and matching, with mismatched dustcover. I bought it from the vet's widow and the dustcover came on it from the war.

Hope this helps.

Rick
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03man

Matching covers seem to be pretty scarce to me. Out of 34 rifles, none has a matching cover, only three had covers at all. Closest I came was with the early Tokyo T38 I reported, cover matched the bolt, which didn't match the rifle.

I agree that it would be good to know at what point the covers stopped- if even only approximate, much like my question on chrome bores and bolts. Maybe they both ended about the same time- seems to fit the minimal pattern above.

03man
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davef

I only have one matching cover ..on a t-38 no series so it doesnt help with when they quit (being back at the beginning).I have a couple more that had incorrect covers when I got them ...Im afraid we'll be seeing a lot more guns with incorrect items like covers,AA wings and such as well as added slings with the price climbing at auction sites and rifles with the goodies being premium I think we'll see more and more made up ones.
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BIG ED

I have a N2 with a matching dust cover, A very high S23 with matching dustcover in the 91K range. A S31 with matching dust cover.All are matched by inspection marks and serial number. I have a S4 that has a matching numbered cover but has tk proofs so its a "semi match" but thats they way I got it.Its harder to find a matching dust cover rifle than one with a mum it seems.I agree the fifth series would be the likely area of dust cover deletion.
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Navybuff

The only one I have with matching dust cover is a series 23 in the early 29,000 range, The rifle matched and came with original pod, rod and wings for $200 about 3 years ago. I guess it is safe to assume (oh no) that series 8 did not have covers so I can stop looking for one of them, what about the 35th series?

Arisakadogs, I was the one who drug your old post back to life. I knew this question had been asked in the past, but I had no idea it was so long ago. You are a man ahead of our time

Kevin
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BIG ED

Navybuff,
Being that a 35th series is a subtitute '99 no dust cover should be on it I would think. My own 35th #14001 has and never had no cover. My friend has S35 #1330 its brand new no kidding and it never ever had a dust cover.
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arisakadogs

I don't know about the other arsenals but I have a 5th series with a matching cover & a later 5th that never had one - except for where someone tried one on it. The grooves are bright up to the arsenal mark. I also have a 4th, 3rd and a no series with matching covers. All are correctly marked & fit perfectly.
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rcb

I have a 5 th. in the 16K that has a matching cover but never had a pod.rcb

DAIMYO
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Franchi

Duncan McCollum compiled dust cover data from "Banzai" members and wrote it up in the 12/94 "Banzai" issue. A few higher numbers have shown up since then and I have added them. Here are the high numbers noted: Nagoya 5th series 70,000 range, Kokura 24th 99,000 range, Toyo Kogyo 32nd 91,000 range. No Izawa 4th series or Izawa & Howa 9th series, Tokyo Juki Kogyo 27th or 37th, or Jinsens have been noted except for an unnumbered dust cover in the 4,000 range of the 37th series. Two Type 2 paratrooper rifles in the 17,000 range are noted also. Although this report is 10 years old it gives a good idea of which series Type 99 rifles could have matching numbered dust covers. Rick Veal reports Jinsen # 9446 in his post, can anyone add other updates?
Gary Franchi
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Dust cover usage- Jinsen

Has anyone seen any other useage on Jinsen 99's?
 
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