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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
poke a hole a mere one inch into the "front" side of that organ, and blood loss will be massive. If it's a lung, it will fill with blood and cease to function. the lung is but 2" deep in the chest, the heart just 3". So this idea of "needing" 12+" of penetration is bs. 10" is a great plenty and Ill' take a load that gets "only' 8", and which does a lot of damage, over .45 ball, ANY DAY. and I can prove its superiority, on feral dogs. nearly a million people in the US seek medical attention for a dog attack, every year. that's 10,000 x as many people as do so for bear swipes/maulings (that so many worry about (so much) on forums.

so let's stop the Freudian BS about the "big stick" and penetration, ok? it's just not true and it's an insult to everyone's intelligence.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
men who know MUCH more than you felt that 7" of penetration sufficed.

I mean Fairbairn and Sykes, the Commando trainers for ww2 britain. they put a 7" blade on their dagger, to allow for the Nazi Great coat, incomplete thrusts, bad angles, pack harness, etc. So they WERE factoring in all the bs you guys claim to be so worried about for ammo selection. at anthing other than a "nice' 90 degree impact angle, car metal, wood, etc, stops and deflects handgun bullets a LOT. So, taking an IDEAL thing, like a 90 degree angle of hit, is bs on the face of it.

If a guy is using cover, you're probably not going to pierce that cover (by definition) other than by a fluke, if you are using ammo that's worth a hoot for shock and tissue damage. That's why every other rd in my mags are an AP design and why I figure to empty the mag at the guy, especially if he's using cover. Basically, if the guy has cover, YOU need cover, too. All the firing noise will be calling help for you and forcing him to flee. So all you really need to do is ensure that he doesn't outflank your cover. Don't fire at bobbing heads around cover, cause your richochets are your responsibility. If one of them hits an innocent, guess what? You're going to prison, and every dime you ever make is going to belong to somebody else. So a bad guy manages to escape, so what? Many a cop has just hunkered down, using cover, called swat and waited for help to arrive.. :) You aint being paid to engage, and you dont have the protections that cops have from being sued, locked up, etc.
 

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.380 hardball that hits the humerus can cause immediate incapacitation - or not, depending on how sensitive the shootee happens to be. But he won't be using that arm for a while, one way or another. That said, actual cover makes handguns worthless, as you note. BUT - curst few civilians will ever be in a gunfight with the bad person firing from cover and returning the CCW fire on him. Accordingly, choose a gun and round that can be counted on to damage the bad person. And AP (including the old .357 Magnum Metal Piercing round) from a handgun will seldom do much more than one door or fender on a car. Not worth bothering with 99 and 44/100ths of the time in the real world. If i am in that sort of firefight, i want a rifle.

Fairbairn and Sykes were looking at a completely different issue when they picked 7" for the blade on a fighting knife intended pretty strictly for thrusting. Knives and guns are - different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
no, they are not. penetration and damage done are the issues with both knife and gun. and the fact remains that they considered 7" to be PLENTY. I would just LOVE to show a few of these "12" minimum" guys what it feels like to have a bowie shoved "only" 4" into their intestine after first penetrating 5" of arm. Maybe they'd wise up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
no, they are not different in this regard. penetration and damage done are the issues with both knife and gun. and the fact remains that they considered 7" to be PLENTY. I would just LOVE to show a few of these "12" minimum" guys what it feels like to have a bowie shoved "only" 4" into their intestine after first penetrating 5" of arm. Maybe they'd wise up? My AP choice also includes Kevlar, shooting OUT thru my car (at a jacker), dealing with a large animal (cattle, horse) etc. It's a fairly high performance load, despite being AP. It's solid copper, a small "dimple" hp, to make it "dig in" rather than glance off of an angular surface. same very lw and 2200 fps as the stopper bullet. Not to get the same POI, that part is irrelevant, but to get the same recoil and energy.
 
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