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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've heard that the SKS is supposedly said to basically be a scaled down version of the PTRS41 anti-tank rifle. Are there any real differences between the two weapons? For example, what about the trigger mechanism or the safety?
 

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PTRS vs. SKS

Basic action very similar. Caliber obviously differant (14.5mm vs. 7.62 x 39mm). SKS feeds from a stagger row fixed magazine; PTRS fed from sheet metal en-bloc clip inserted into a fixed mag; has bipod and muzzle brake f/ recoil reduction (VERRRY LOUD I'm sure). Here's link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRS-41:)
 

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I think the anti-tank rifles were a product of WW1,when the armor on a tank was light enough that a specialized rifle round would go through it.The 50bmg round is based on a WW1 German anti-tank round.While there were a few tanks early in WW2 that they may have been effective against,the technology of tanks rapidly passed it by,though they were likely still effective against more lightly armored vehicles.
 

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One of the things that is pretty neat to look at the Patton Tank Museum is the Korean war era T38 tank that was taken out by 50BMG fire (pointed out to my untrained eye's by RichardUK :) ). Once it's pointed out to you you can see the damage the 50 cal did to the tank and how it took it out (put one through an opening). Still though to be that gunner firing away while a tank is rolling straight at you must of had a set the size of bowling balls :)
 

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I believe they were developed at a time when tank armor was light enough to be taken down by projectile weapons. As the war wore on, they could blow off a tread or (so i have heard) break vision ports or jam a turret. They were also good for hitting unarmored vehicles, like trucks, and would still work on lightly armored vehicles like a halftrack.

The film probably overestimates the value of these rifles... but i think the way to employ them suggested by the film is correct. You'd want to blow off a tread, hit the crew, or pin a turret. They're obviously not going to say the rifle is useless, so this would let you do the best with what is given.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Basic action very similar. Caliber obviously differant (14.5mm vs. 7.62 x 39mm). SKS feeds from a stagger row fixed magazine; PTRS fed from sheet metal en-bloc clip inserted into a fixed mag; has bipod and muzzle brake f/ recoil reduction (VERRRY LOUD I'm sure). Here's link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRS-41:)

Didn't the SKS also have features from some of Simonov's other designs? Namely the AVS-36 and a submachine gun prototype?
 

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Didn't the SKS also have features from some of Simonov's other designs? Namely the AVS-36 and a submachine gun prototype?
No, SKS was basically a scaled-down prototype Simonov 1941 semi-automatic rifle originally chambered for 7.62x54R
AVS-36 was very different.
Attached is the photo of prototype SKS (with spike bayonet) and the aforementioned experimental rifle, made by me in store room of the Russian army museum
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
No, SKS was basically a scaled-down prototype Simonov 1941 semi-automatic rifle originally chambered for 7.62x54R
AVS-36 was very different.
Attached is the photo of prototype SKS (with spike bayonet) and the aforementioned experimental rifle, made by me in store room of the Russian army museum
I didn't mean to say that the SKS45 was derived from the AVS. I know that it was a redesigned derivative of the SKS41 (7.62x54R), which did indeed not get farther than the drawing board. However, the SKS trigger mechanism is indeed similar, but not identical to that of the AVS. ALso, the SKS's *rebound disconnector* is derived from the buffered sear of Browning’s BAR.
 

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There are a few differences in the PTRS and the SKS and here are a couple:
The trigger in the PTRS is bottom hinged, you pull the top of the trigger which is made of a sheet metal pressing. The gas piston on the PTRS is a cup type piston that fits over the gasport like a Tokarev SVT and the adjustment is much different than the SKS. To adjust gasports you (this from memory, the gun is in the shop and I'm in the house) remove the lock pin, press the gasport in from the front, rotate it to line up the desired port, pull it back forward and reinsert the lock pin. The tappet part of the piston assembly in the PTRS has no spring return and attaches to the piston cup just like the SVT.

Now the similarities are very pronounced....I showed a friend a picture of the PTRS bolt and he thought it was an SKS bolt. When we got to the shop we pulled the PTRS apart as well as a yugo SKS and he was amazed. The bolt handles are a bit different but the carriers are the same and so is the bolt, hammer is carbon copy too but I can't remember what the trigger mech looks like, I don't tear it down that far very often. I guess I need to take some side by side photos for questions like this.....I do have a couple pics here of the PTRS sitting next to an RPD light machinegun. The RPD is much longer than the SKS but looks like a toy next to the monster...

Frank
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There are a few differences in the PTRS and the SKS and here are a couple:
The trigger in the PTRS is bottom hinged, you pull the top of the trigger which is made of a sheet metal pressing.
What's the SKS trigger like?

The gas piston on the PTRS is a cup type piston that fits over the gasport like a Tokarev SVT
So th SKS gas piston is diferent then?

and the adjustment is much different than the SKS. To adjust gasports you (this from memory, the gun is in the shop and I'm in the house) remove the lock pin, press the gasport in from the front, rotate it to line up the desired port, pull it back forward and reinsert the lock pin. The tappet part of the piston assembly in the PTRS has no spring return and attaches to the piston cup just like the SVT.

Now the similarities are very pronounced....I showed a friend a picture of the PTRS bolt and he thought it was an SKS bolt. When we got to the shop we pulled the PTRS apart as well as a yugo SKS and he was amazed. The bolt handles are a bit different but the carriers are the same and so is the bolt, hammer is carbon copy too but I can't remember what the trigger mech looks like,
I suspect that the sizes between the two weapons's carriers , hammers and bolts are different.

I don't tear it down that far very often. I guess I need to take some side by side photos for questions like this.....I do have a couple pics here of the PTRS sitting next to an RPD light machinegun. The RPD is much longer than the SKS but looks like a toy next to the monster...

Frank

Nice pics. Thanks for the info.
 

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Lets see KVL, I'll try to answer those questions in order..
the SKS triggers I have are all top hinged so you pull the bottom of the trigger to fire. Most are machined (and/or cast or forged). The PTRS is bottom hinged so you pull on the top of the trigger.

The SKS gas piston is a standard piston, it fits inside the gastube just like an AK with the gasses leaking around the outside of the piston and venting through the tube at vents. In the PTRS the piston is a cup which fits around the spigot which is the gas vent. Basically its in invert of the SKS setup and more like the SVT Tokarev rifle system. There is no real bleed off since the piston cup has no ports to vent the gas. I guess it just bleeds back onto the barrel when the piston is forced back in place.


The sizes are most obviously different due to the difference in cartridge size. A complete 7.62X39 rd is about the weight of the standard API projectile in the 14.5mm-962gr. I'll take some photos of the parts together to show that difference.


Frank
 

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i saw a t-72 destroyed in iraq by sustained 50 caliber fire. The rounds impacted the rear, where the armor was weakest and caught the power pack on fire. The tank went up. don't underestimate the kinetic power of AP from a .50.
 

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OK guys,
here are some pics.
Hopefully most will explain themselves. The last 2 are pictures of the SVT 40 tokarev gas piston cup and port.

Frank
 
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