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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Does anyone here collect sake cups?
Topic:
Topic author: awp101
Subject: Does anyone here collect sake cups?
Posted on: 09/08/2005 11:18:16 PM
Message:
OK, they're not a weapon but militaria at least? OTOH I have had some sake that tried to whoop me...

I just got 3 cups that are supposed to be from WWII. Any clues to look for to verify authenticity?

Thanks!

Replies:

Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 09/09/2005 12:00:19 AM
Message:
Sake cups are for women & young children.
Sorry, they've never done anything for me but it appears they are pretty popular with some folks. Dan King has a book out on them. You might look for a copy of it.

I was just kidding - sort of.

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/09/2005 08:32:17 AM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by arisakadogs
Sake cups are for women & young children.
How can you be sure that I'm not at least one, if not both of those...




Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 09/09/2005 09:00:06 AM
Message:
I like your sense of humor! Welcome to this board!

Reply author: MarkRKelley
Replied on: 09/09/2005 09:28:34 AM
Message:
"It may be rice wine to you, but it's sake to me." It's an old punchline from Laugh In.

Reply author: davef
Replied on: 09/09/2005 09:34:13 AM
Message:
Ahhh, Sake...it sort of smells like old socks or cleaning fluid to me, and tastes worse.however it does do the job after a few glasses.only problem is those sake cups are too small and fragile for a oaf like me.


Reply author: Bill_in_VA
Replied on: 09/09/2005 11:12:07 AM
Message:
Yup, I've got a pretty fair collection of sake cups (maybe 60? 70?_...don't know a whole heck of a lot about them and would like to find a decent book to help sort out the collection.


Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 09/09/2005 1:25:00 PM
Message:
Look up the seller Rich2000 on E-pay,that's Richard Fuller,of Military Swords of Japan fame.He authored a good sake cup book that he hawks on Ebay for @ 45 bucks.Be aware that there's a bustleing industry for post war(2005) commemorative cups for vets and collectors going on over there.Hard to tell the repops.You're best bet is buy the larger 3.5"-4" cups with unit commeration from the Russo-Japanese war,no vets around to collect those,so mostly original.Those with crossed ray flags and unit# info in addition to time expired markings are the best bet for pre '45.All the ones with soldiers marching the Great Wall with a Betty flying overhead and the Yamato shellin' away in the background are usually fantasy pieces.Or worst offenders,kamikaze cups,with cherry blossums and zero fighters diveing on them,give me a break! Scott


Reply author: CW
Replied on: 09/09/2005 2:52:58 PM
Message:
I would like a couple for drinking after a long day of gunshows or going to the range, but I'm afraid of repos. Also, I wonder if the glaze on those things are safe or leaded?



Reply author: Otter
Replied on: 09/09/2005 4:41:49 PM
Message:
Yes, actually I have a collection of about 300 cups, bottles, trays and saucers...I'm now starting into Japanese Military Tea cups...They're very interesting and historical...They were only made for the military from 1896 to 1945...There are different styles and military branches...
Oh, and Arisakadog...I'm neither a woman or young child...Neither were the men that these were made for. That's kinda' like saying that all the arisakas and nambus we collect were made for wimps. NOT!


Reply author: 03man
Replied on: 09/09/2005 7:41:37 PM
Message:
I like my sake cold, and from a cold glass or a bottle, sake saucers make me spill too much.


Reply author: Bill_in_VA
Replied on: 09/09/2005 8:16:34 PM
Message:
Tea cups and sake trays, eh? I can't say that I've seen either. In fact, I didn't even know about the tea cups. I'll have to track a few down to go with my other odd ball stuff...C&O gravy boat, N&W demitasse cups and silverware, Nazi gravy boat, etc...


Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 09/09/2005 10:05:17 PM
Message:
I've had only one teacup over the years,a Manchuria commem,w/crossed ray flags and unit /soldier i.d..It was like 2"inside dia. and 4" os so tall,cylindrical shaped.Made a handy anything cup.Those are scarce.Typically,you had a place set consisting of a well decorated(flags,ect)laquer tray,4-6"tall bottle,and likewise motif cups(4) to go with it.And optional silver cupped coasters for each cup.Yea I know 'Dogs,an itsy-bitsy tea set....heh,,Scott


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 09/09/2005 10:37:04 PM
Message:
Sigh, to each his own. All I can say is that plowing through the endless saki cups on e-bay reminds me of the jewlery tables at gun shows!
I'm sure that will rile some of ya!
Actually, I have seen a couple that looked interesting. But I know even less about them than I do about swords & I sure don't need another addiction! I hope Nagoya didn't make any!


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/09/2005 10:55:16 PM
Message:








quote: Originally posted by arisakadogs
I like your sense of humor! Welcome to this board!
Thanks!

On some other boards I'm known as a Professional Smarta**...


I have more militaria addictions than I need but I figured one more couldn't hurt....that much.


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 09/10/2005 12:09:06 AM
Message:
Ya got me thinking (I know - be afraid). I'd like to know if many were brought back from islands we seized in the Pacific or if they mostly came out of Japan. I like period related items in my displays - caps, money, cigaretts, etc. If I was sure these were out there in the field, I'd be tempted to get a couple.

Reply author: Otter
Replied on: 09/10/2005 09:46:16 AM
Message:
I haven't seen any of the ones excevated from Truk listed recently...I've seen a few brought back from Iwo, Saipan and Okinawa-listed by the vet (or their family after the vet went west). Normally they're (ummm)fairly worn and "used" if excevated or brought back from the battlefield...Kinda' like some of the stuff we collect!

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/10/2005 7:22:44 PM
Message:
arisakadogs, mine were shipped from Japan so I can't say.


Much to my surprise my wife put them in her curio cabinet after she saw them. I was intending to build a display rack for them (someday) but she thinks they're neat. I'm going to use this as an excuse to buy more!

Reply author: gtbehary
Replied on: 09/10/2005 10:44:21 PM
Message:
I remember visiting Banzai member "Dusty Rhodes" in the Twin Cities area back in the eighties and he showed me his sake cup collection. He had boxes of them...probably 100's of them. I purchased a few of them from him. They were about $10-$20.00 back then. He had an impressive Japanese collection. I believe he was a driver for a Major or General during the occupation.



Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/11/2005 10:44:54 AM
Message:








quote: Originally posted by pacific-war44
Look up the seller Rich2000 on E-pay,that's Richard Fuller,of Military Swords of Japan fame.He authored a good sake cup book that he hawks on Ebay for @ 45 bucks.
I looked under the seller name and real name over there but found nothing. How is that book different from this one?
I'll do a google search as well on the info and see what pops up.

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/11/2005 12:43:08 PM
Message:
Another question while I'm waiting for reference material...

How "authentic" do you guys think this is?

http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9312&stc=1&d=1191718943
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Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 09/11/2005 1:19:38 PM
Message:
Some years back I saw something about sake that was interesting. It's not a wine at all. The way it's made is closer to making it a flat beer. Maybe that's why I like it & don't care for wine. I sure like it warmed on a cold day!

Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/11/2005 4:22:10 PM
Message:
A-dogs, you are right on the button. There is nothing "wine-ish" about sake. they are made totally differently and closer to beer making as you say. Also sake does not tolerate long storage (you hafta drink them at least within an year of being brewed) and cannot be kept in hot temperature either except when you wan't to heat it up right before drinking.
There is a biiiig difference between good sake and crap. A good sake whether dry or sweet has a straight defined taste as it goes down, but no weird aftertaste, whereas trash made from huge breweries and the Kalifornia made ones taste like mop water with foul aftertaste that lingers. Davef, you need to experience a good shot of fine sake and your perception will change a 180 degrees.


Reply author: Bill_in_VA
Replied on: 09/11/2005 8:55:31 PM
Message:
awp,
Just based on your photo, they look fine to me (but then again, I'm not a sake cup RKI by any stretch of the imagination.) FWIW, the thrird and fourth cups from the left, top row are pretty common designs/motifs. I have a couple of them are very similar. My understanding of sake cups is that they weren't military issue, but were along several of the following... sold to the soldiers in the commisary, sold to families as gifts to soldiers, or commissioned (by soldiers/families) to commemorate certain events, location or length of service, return home etc... While a majority of the patterns are somewhat standardized, many are personalized with a short poem, a dedication, patriotic slogans, a soldier's name or unit, etc...


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/11/2005 9:34:05 PM
Message:


Thanks Bill_in_VA, even if you're not an RKI you're still ahead of me!








quote: Originally posted by pacific-war44
Those with crossed ray flags and unit# info in addition to time expired markings are the best bet for pre '45.
What are time expired markings? I've seen that in some descriptions too.

Reply author: vis35
Replied on: 09/11/2005 11:38:59 PM
Message:
All right, I know I am going seriously off topic here, but…..

Edokko, could you recommend a good sake to try? I picked up a bottle on my way home tonight, (perhaps a subliminal suggestion from reading the earlier parts of this thread?) but I suspect that I got one of those bottles of California mop water (Sho Chiku Bai, it is from California and was inexpensive). What are a few good brands to look for? Nothing to exotic as I live up here in the hinterlands, Anchorage, Alaska.
Regards,
Jeff


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/12/2005 12:02:49 AM
Message:
Vis35, I'm not sure if you folks up in Alaska gets these but try to see if you can find any of the following. These are the better ones that I see imported into the States (at least here in Calif), and ranked from the best down.

1) Kubota Sen-ju (expensive !)
2) Momen-ya
3) Namahage
4) Tsukasa-botan
5) Karatamba (so-so)


If none of these are avilable the best you can do is probably "Cho-kara" which is made in Calif. but better than the others.
My favorite sushi place in Anchorage is "Tempura Kitchen", the bit of un-imaginative name aside they serve one of the best sushis in the US, even better then lot's of the sushi places in Tokyo. You should ask the chef there for some good instructions on where to by any of the above sake in Anchorage. Good luck !!



Reply author: vis35
Replied on: 09/12/2005 03:26:11 AM
Message:
Thanks for the recommendations Edokko, I think Momen-ya was one of the other brands that were at the store, also I will try Tempura Kitchen, I used to work just a few blocks from there, never tried them but always heard that they were a good restaurant.

Next time you are in Anchorage, look me up if you have time; love to buy you a beer!
Jeff



Reply author: davef
Replied on: 09/12/2005 07:06:04 AM
Message:
I shall try one of the better ones ,like you suggest, Edokko,thank you...Dave

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/12/2005 1:59:42 PM
Message:








quote: Originally posted by vis35
All right, I know I am going seriously off topic here, but…..
Edokko, could you recommend a good sake to try?
That's OK, you just saved me the trouble of hijacking my own thread and asking!


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/13/2005 10:11:11 AM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by awp101
quote: Originally posted by pacific-war44

Look up the seller Rich2000 on E-pay,that's Richard Fuller,of Military Swords of Japan fame.He authored a good sake cup book that he hawks on Ebay for @ 45 bucks.






I looked under the seller name and real name over there but found nothing. How is that book different from this one?​



I'll do a google search as well on the info and see what pops up.​
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?



Reply author: jscott
Replied on: 09/13/2005 8:28:07 PM
Message:
I guess it is time I come out of the closet too.
http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9313&stc=1&d=1191718943

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http://forums.gunboards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9314&d=1191718956

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Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 09/14/2005 12:38:37 AM
Message:
The bottle is cool,is that the Mikasa? Ruso-Japanese theme. Also looks like an Old Spice bottle with the top cropped out like that,heh.And the tea cup is the coolest,I just can't seem to find those much anymore. Scott

Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/15/2005 12:37:18 AM
Message:
Jeff, ahh, but if I can travel back to Alaska again. One of my favorite vacations is to fly into Anchorage, rent a 31ft RV at CruiseAmerica and take off into the great wild yonder, camp out on the RV on lonely roadsides and photograph wildlife and the northern lights. And, of course poke around the gunshops there.
Last time (back in 2002), I visited a shop in north Anchorage and they had a real nice T-38 and a T-14 with a GI made shoulder holster (really nicely done). Next time I go, I will let you know and will bring a nice bottle of sake while at it.


Awp101, all three of your cups are authentic. The white/gold leaf cup is a Shanghai campain commemoration cup. the colored one is for Army infantry unit 42, and the other one has the IJA star. Nice set.


Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 09/15/2005 05:56:40 AM
Message:
Hey Edokko,I just noticed some sake at the local package store (Gaikakkin-sp.?)was not only bottled at the Kalifornia mop-water plant-at $6.95 a pop,it has been done so under strict edict by the Japanese Imperial Family for over a century! Says so on the label. Maybe Hirohito was drinking this crap when he was in charge of the mainland during the war....tastes like it was found in a cave on Guadalcanal recently too,eww.....Scott

Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/15/2005 08:25:50 AM
Message:
Scott, ha ! the sumbich Hirohito deserved it.


Reply author: Otter
Replied on: 09/15/2005 08:28:46 AM
Message:
Has anyone read the book "Goodbye Darkness" by William Raymond Manchester? He describe his squad finding a case of sake on one of the islands they were fighting on. Said that all of the bottles had silver lables but one. It was pink. They drew lots and he got that one...He said he drank it all and passed out cold!
Laid out in a field passed out during a mortar barrage. Woke up the next morning. It seems they found out that the pink labled bottle must have been for officers because-and I can't remember quite which proof it was-either 40 or 80 proof sake!


Reply author: fingolfen
Replied on: 09/15/2005 11:52:41 AM
Message:








quote: Originally posted by awp101
arisakadogs, mine were shipped from Japan so I can't say.
Much to my surprise my wife put them in her curio cabinet after she saw them. I was intending to build a display rack for them (someday) but she thinks they're neat. I'm going to use this as an excuse to buy more!
Wish my wife thought the same of the rifle collection...


Of course, then I'd need a LOT more gunsafes...

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/15/2005 6:43:58 PM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by fingolfen
[brWish my wife thought the same of the rifle collection...
Wish mine thought the same of my weapons collection...I'm just glad I found something I like that she'll display!


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/22/2005 10:22:55 PM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by Edokko
Awp101, all three of your cups are authentic. The white/gold leaf cup is a Shanghai campain commemoration cup. the colored one is for Army infantry unit 42, and the other one has the IJA star. Nice set.
Thanks!

Another question...Army infantry unit 42? Is that a Division, battalion, regiment or what?

You can't see it in the pic, but there's lettering on the other side that indicate it's a discharge commemorative.

BTW, I got the King book today and am working my way through it. I looked at the pretty pictures first and I'll dive into the text later....


Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/23/2005 3:57:02 PM
Message:
awp101, that will be the 42nd infantry regiment. Cheers.

Reply author: pacific-war44
Replied on: 09/23/2005 4:59:53 PM
Message:
Hey Otter,did those guys read Japanese? The pink label mighta said"RIFLE CLEANING FLUID".Heh. My old man mentioned that once on the mainland,some folks would pile up around your rail car and hawk bottles of beer and sake for sale.Sometimes you popped the virgin label and tasted ditch water,or worse,urine.Seems those bottles had a dried wad of gum on the bottom,from being drilled and drained,then "refilled".Buyer beware. Scott

Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/23/2005 10:11:37 PM
Message:
Konnichi-wa Edokko! Ok it may not be spelled correctly but I bet it's close!


I wonder what division or if it was and independent regiment?

Reply author: Edokko
Replied on: 09/24/2005 4:57:09 PM
Message:
awp101, your Konnichiwa is juuust fine !
I'm on a biz trip now and need to look up my books at home to get a background on them, but the 42nd may have been from the Yamaguchi area.


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 09/24/2005 5:42:29 PM
Message:
I just realized...my konnichiwa should have been an arigato!


Edokko, you are a gentleman and a scholar...I don't care what arisakadogs says!

Reply author: IRON BUTTERFLY
Replied on: 10/09/2005 05:10:17 AM
Message:
I always wondered if the japanese lost the war because when they were in combat they were too worried about breaking thier sake cups!


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 10/09/2005 12:03:23 PM
Message:








quote: Originally posted by awp101
I just realized...my konnichiwa should have been an arigato!
Edokko, you are a gentleman and a scholar...I don't care what arisakadogs says!
Actually, nobody ever cares what I say!


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 10/11/2005 9:35:15 PM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by arisakadogs
Actually, nobody ever cares what I say!
Aw, we do but it's more fun this way...


Group hug?


Reply author: arisakadogs
Replied on: 10/11/2005 10:30:40 PM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by awp101
Group hug?
See, I knew saki cup collectors were a bunch of sissies!


I've actually looked at a few of them posted on e-pain, but haven't seen anything that does anything for me. I think I'll stick to one disease at a time. Just adding bayonets made by Nagoya or Nagoya sub-contractors was a Pandora's box! Maybe I'll find a Nagoya saki cup someday!
What I still really - really want is a Nagoya marked box of T-99 ammo!


Reply author: awp101
Replied on: 10/11/2005 11:07:06 PM
Message:







quote: Originally posted by arisakadogs
quote: Originally posted by awp101


Group hug?








See, I knew saki cup collectors were a bunch of sissies!
We prefer to think of ourselves as "refined", like a good wine or soul stirring haiku...

Ah Hell, who am I kidding? They're just one of my less expensive addicti....hobbies!


BTW, I got two more in the mail today and a notice there's at least one more at the PO. I'm up to 4 porcelain and 2 laquered wood. Not sure which the one at the PO is yet.



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