[Stopsign32v]

Just curious since I have had people ask me before "Is it counterbored?". Now to me that is one of the least things I'm worried about and it has no say in whether I pay more or less for a rifle. Actually right now I couldn't even tell you if most of my rifles are counterbored (they aren't, I mainly own Finns), but still that shows how much I worry about it.

So the question is would you/do you pay more money for Mosins if they are not counterbored?

 

[Spaxspore]

In regards to the CB question let me break it down for me personally:

Finnish - never

SCW - Never

M91s - never

Any oddities / uncommon rifles- never

Refurbished 91/30s - No

Refurbished Carbines -Yes.. i would ask. Why? its nice to find one that isn't just for future resale ability and the ignorance out there that a counter-bored rifle is a bad thing and less accurate. But is not a deal breaker.

Refurbished PU Snipers - Yes for the same reasons above. May be a deal breaker because of the reasons above.

 

[Vic]

I could care less. I'm buying the gun not the bore. In my realm of
Collecting the whole example supercedes bore condition. Would I
Walk away for example from a SVT izhvesk made 1939 dated example that I lack because the bore was rotten or a 1930 PEM with a counterbore? No way. I'm buying the gun and its components and history of its bore condition.

 

[Spaxspore]

I could care less. I'm buying the gun not the bore. In my realm of
Collecting the whole example supercedes bore condition. Would I
Walk away for example from a SVT izhvesk made 1939 dated example that I lack because the bore was rotten or a 1930 PEM with a counterbore? No way. I'm buying the gun and its components and history of its bore condition.

Well said, exactly how i feel.

 

[cncman]

+1 but I do use it to get a better deal in negotiations. And yes, I get that question a lot when I sell something. Most people don't know that one that is counterbored will probably shoot better than one that needs it to be done.

Well said, exactly how i feel.

 

[Doby]

Given a choice between two rifles in equal condition and rarity, I would probably take the one that has not been counterbored over one that has. but like both of you I don't consider it a big deal except when resale is taken into account. So because of that I would probably pay a little more for one that isn't counterbored. or to put it the correct way, I'd want to pay a little less for one that is, lol. Not much, but some.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Refurbished Carbines -Yes.. i would ask. Why? its nice to find one that isn't just for future resale ability and the ignorance out there that a counter-bored rifle is a bad thing and less accurate. But is not a deal breaker.

I have found quite the opposite with my M38 conterbored vs my non counterbored ones. Non counterbored does NOT = more accurate. I actually find it to be the opposite. (not surprising, but like you said...)

 

[Stopsign32v]

Can we get a picture of Bubba with the caption "Is that thar Moisin Izzy counterbored?"

 

[cncman]

but that is probably because the non counterbored ones are bores that are in better shape and didn't need to be counterbored as they didn't see a lot of use right? Remember the reason they counterbored them was from improper cleaning with the rod without using a guide and other abuses. So one that has seen the same action that hasn't been counterbored I would think is less accurate than a similar one that has been.

I have found quite the opposite with my M38 conterbored vs my non counterbored ones. Non counterbored does NOT = more accurate. I actually find it to be the opposite. (not surprising, but like you said...)

 

[Spaxspore]

but that is probably because the non counterbored ones are bores that are in better shape and didn't need to be counterbored as they didn't see a lot of use right? Remember the reason they counterbored them was from improper cleaning with the rod without using a guide and other abuses. So one that has seen the same action that hasn't been counterbored I would think is less accurate than a similar one that has been.

exactly. A hypothetical situation - one compares two m38s that have been through the mill, one countered and one not.. usually the CB one is more accurate. I had this experience not with m38s, but with two 1944s m44s in similar condition.. But with everything nothing is set in stone.


For example, some rifles are more accurate with certain ammo than others so on and so forth.

But it seems that much of the current noncollecting masses out there think a counter bored rifle is a negative and less accurate. Or they think its a serious flaw and a deal breaker because of it. All i can say is really they have been sadly misinformed and mislead.

 

[Richard in NY*]

The bore is perhaps the only aspect of a collectible rifle that does not interest me. I simply don't care which is somewhat at odds with my otherwise obsessive focus and concern about condition.

 

[Stopsign32v]

But it seems that much of the current noncollecting masses out there think a counter bored rifle is a negative and less accurate. Or they think its a serious flaw and a deal breaker because of it. They have been sadly misinformed and mislead.

Bingo, and we saw a good example of a senior member that feeds this misinformation and misleads new collectors.

 

[milprileb]

CB is an issue

I guess I am the one voice in the wind here but I own a CB and its a poor shooter. Its a M38, the only
one I ever came across and I drank the "Don't worry about Counter Bore" KOOL AID advice against my better judgment
and bought it. The M38 will get the boot as soon as I find another M38 that is not counter bored. ... If that
ever happens.

Counter Bores....they only matter if you are a shooter and not into owning a museum.

 

[Spaxspore]

The bore is perhaps the only aspect of a collectible rifle that does not interest me. I simply don't care which is somewhat at odds with my otherwise obsessive focus and concern about condition.

You and me both brother! :thumbsup:

Counter Bores....they only matter if you are a shooter and not into owning a museum.

Thats true, all i can say is Different strokes for different folks

Bingo, and we saw a good example of a senior member that feeds this misinformation and misleads new collectors.

Agreed, speaking as a collector its never a deal breaker. One can always find one (or two or three) refurb/s for shooters.

 

[pgaplayerless]

Bingo, and we saw a good example of a senior member that feeds this misinformation and misleads new collectors.

I don't think Spaxspore is trying to mislead new collectors. He simply says while it doesn't matter to him, he realizes it matter to the boarder market.

This topic has been discussed many times and the results were pretty evenly split between those who care and those who do not. And readily available samples are affected lot more by bore condition than rarer variants. Since those that are willing to pay more set the prices you can make your own conclusions.

 

[Nirvana]

Counterboring a gun is done to improve the accuracy. It creates a fresh muzzle crown, the last part of the barrel that the bullet touches before it leaves, which is really nice to have. It has nothing to do with the condition of the bore as a whole, it merely cleans up the crown.

A gun that isn't counterbored, but still worn out, is going to be less accurate than a gun with a sharp barrel and a nice counterbore. The lack of counterbore in that case would be a bad thing.

Accuracy is a bad thing?

 

[Spaxspore]

Counterboring a gun is done to improve the accuracy. It creates a fresh muzzle crown, the last part of the barrel that the bullet touches before it leaves, which is really nice to have. It has nothing to do with the condition of the bore as a whole, it merely cleans up the crown.

A gun that isn't counterbored, but still worn out, is going to be less accurate than a gun with a sharp barrel and a nice counterbore. The lack of counterbore in that case would be a bad thing.

Accuracy is a bad thing?

Well said, exactly correct. Ive noticed many folks think a CB = a worn bore and rifling. But as you pointed out, a brand new bore can be damaged from incorrectly cleaning with the steal rod and damaging the rifling around the muzzle. So a counterbore would be necessary to restore accuracy. A lack of a CB in that situation and the rifle couldn't hit spit.

 

[Stopsign32v]

I don't think Spaxspore is trying to mislead new collectors. He simply says while it doesn't matter to him, he realizes it matter to the boarder market.

He isn't misleading new collectors and I didn't say he was. I said to him that we both (as in him and I) witnessed a "senior member" spread misinformation regarding the topic. He also pointed out that the people that do care about counterbored or not are misleaded new collectors. To see if this isn't true, take a look at how many regular/senior collectors in this thread care about it in any Mosin they buy. So far I count 0.

 

[pgaplayerless]

He isn't misleading new collectors and I didn't say he was. I said to him that we both (as in him and I) witnessed a "senior member" spread misinformation regarding the topic. He also pointed out that the people that do care about counterbored or not are misleaded new collectors. To see if this isn't true, take a look at how many regular/senior collectors in this thread care about it in any Mosin they buy. So far I count 0.

haha you are just bad at counting......milprileb does, doby does, cncman does

Ask big rollers.....like shmlnaaa.... if he'd pay more for 100% orginal Mosin or 100% original and counterbored mosin, hahahah

No matter how you cut it, counter bore is another departure from the rifles original condition.

 

[Doby]

Lol, if counterboring were important here, I probably would have sold my M38 last weekend. The trade fell through and I didn't bother to relist it because there seemed to be no interest in it. . It isn't. But it shoots about the same as the one I have that is.

I certainly see that everyone asks about it if I don't put it in my ads.