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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, as some of you are no doubt aware, Finland is in a process of changing out its sniper rifles.

The Finnish 7.62 TKiv 85 uses 7.62x53mmR for that sniper rifle variant. There are some receivers still in use (for the TKiv 85) that date to the 1890s in those firearms, which are highly reliable. But no other military force uses that cartridge anymore. The Finnish snipers also have (some, not sure how many) Dragunovs in the more common 7.62x54mmR which can be readily produced from non-Russian sources or captured from Russian enemy in the event of actual conflict.
Those sniper rifles (7.62 TKiv 85 and the Dragunovs) are being phased out of Finnish sniper use. The replacements to be phased in by 2023 will be Sako's semi-automatic Sniper Rifle 23 and the Sako Designated Marksman Rifle 23 for as a section support weapon. The former has a range of 800m and the latter 600m.

The Sako M23 DMR for the Finnish Defence Force is a semi-auto sniper rifle, AR-style and chambered in 7.62x51mm NATO. It has a short-stroke gas piston system. The riflescope is a Steiner M7Xi 2.9-20×50, mounted with a Spuhr cantilever mount. An Ase Utra suppressor is the last thing the bullet passes through before exiting.

So, here is my question: with Sako's rifles replacing the 7.62 TKiv 85 (in 7.62x53mmR) and the Dragunovs (7.62x54) the Finns have, what happens to the TKiv 85 and the Dragunovs - will any of them be exported to the USA for collectors?

Hopefully this is not too dumb of a question. I'm assuming in asking the question that the replacements are 1:1 or more (that the Finnish Defense Force will end up with more Sakos than it had TKiv 85 + Dragunovs). So I hope my question is not out of place despite any potential threats that are contemplated near Finland, etc.

Yes, I'm a U.S. collector.

If anyone who has an idea of the current import export situation with these with respect to Finland / USA please feel free to reply and no I don't mind being called an idiot, go right ahead.
 

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The best place to ask this question is the Mosin forum since a number of Finnish members hang out there. That said, I seriously doubt we'll see Finnish used SVD's or Tkiv-85's imported into the U.S. when I'm sure Finnish shooters and collectors would happily buy the limited numbers being surplused out. That is assuming of course that Finnish law even allows such sales, I'm not familiar enough with them to comment. As I recall the SVD was specifically named as being banned from import into the U.S. by the 1989-import ban of Russian semi auto rifles. It may be possible to import the Finnish ones since they've been in two different country's (East Germany and Finland) for more than 30 years but I'm not sure if the 30-year exception applies in this case anyway.
 

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Some years back when Markku Palokangas was still the Director of the National Defense College Military Museum, I was fortunate to visit with a friend. I asked about the MAB 15 pistol the Finnish Border Guards had used, and would they be sold? He replied that the 285 pistols had been put into war storage. I would think that would also happen with the Finnish Sniper rifles now being used, when they are eventually replaced. John
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I’ve actually been emailing a number of contacts at the Finnish ministry of defense on this very topic to see about importing the TKiV 85s… no luck with reaching anyone unfortunately.
I'd be interested to know if you get a reply. I'm not a FFL but I have my CA COE (consultant evaluator) and CA DOJ Certified Instructor (Firearm Safety Certificate program) designation, and I have a good ongoing business relationship with a few FFLs.
 

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So, here is my question: with Sako's rifles replacing the 7.62 TKiv 85 (in 7.62x53mmR) and the Dragunovs (7.62x54) the Finns have, what happens to the TKiv 85 and the Dragunovs - will any of them be exported to the USA for collectors?
That said, I seriously doubt we'll see Finnish used SVD's or Tkiv-85's imported into the U.S. when I'm sure Finnish shooters and collectors would happily buy the limited numbers being surplused out. That is assuming of course that Finnish law even allows such sales, I'm not familiar enough with them to comment. As I recall the SVD was specifically named as being banned from import into the U.S. by the 1989-import ban of Russian semi auto rifles. It may be possible to import the Finnish ones since they've been in two different country's (East Germany and Finland) for more than 30 years but I'm not sure if the 30-year exception applies in this case anyway.
It is very unlikely that either TKIV 85 or Dragunov rifles will be ever exported out of Finland. It is more likely the few hundred firearms will be donated to the National Defence Training Association of Finland, (MPK), the spiritual successor of the Civil Guard. This was the case in 2017 when the Finnish Defence Forces donated 400 RK 62 semi-automatic rifles to the MPK.

Besides, before any former East Germany equipment can be sold, the Government of Finland must apply for export permit from the Government of Germany, as it was seen when former East Germany (and Finnish) equipment were donated by Estonia to Ukraine.

If anyone who has an idea of the current import export situation with these with respect to Finland / USA please feel free to reply and no I don't mind being called an idiot, go right ahead.
Police of Finland - Moving firearms across national borders
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It is very unlikely that either TKIV 85 or Dragunov rifles will be ever exported out of Finland. It is more likely the few hundred firearms will be donated to the National Defence Training Association of Finland, (MPK), the spiritual successor of the Civil Guard. This was the case in 2017 when the Finnish Defence Forces donated 400 RK 62 semi-automatic rifles to the MPK.

Besides, before any former East Germany equipment can be sold, the Government of Finland must apply for export permit from the Government of Germany, as it was seen when former East Germany (and Finnish) equipment were donated by Estonia to Ukraine.



Police of Finland - Moving firearms across national borders
Thanks Mangrove, looks like it would require Type 01 or 03 or 08 or 11 FFL as the likely best options in USA to do this with, plus Form 6... And the Finnish form / permit which you linked to above in the Police of Finland link.

The ATF link: Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Types of Importers | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

I'm going to assume any former East German equipment would not be released by Finland to USA collectors although who knows, I could be wrong.

I'm guessing the Dragunovs are too much of a pain to move (to collectors / to the USA / etc) for all the reasons other commenters here have previously mentioned, and they will remain in National Defence Training Association of Finland as Mangrove has suggested above.

As for the TKiv 85s (some of which are true antiques in terms of the receiver date (such that when disassembled, the tang date [on tang, the tab at underside rear of receiver] might actually say 95r or something like that for some of them indicating 1895 as year receiver was made), I wonder still if some might find their way to a Type 08, Type 3 or Type 1 FFL in the USA. They are collectors' items. While this seems like a limited possibility I imagine it still could occur in small numbers, you never know.
 
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