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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A gentlemean who was referred to me called yesterday and wanted me to examine his "All matching" walnut stocked, 1938 dated code 42 Mauser.

I went over his rifle this afternoon, the walnut stock had been sanded, the external stock serial number was missing, but the stock eagles were very crisp?? In addition to the two stock eagles on the right side of the stock, additional eagles were on the pistol grip and just behind the triggerguard on the bottom of the stock. There was also a deeply stamped L above the eagles on the stock, but the L did not have an eagle by it.

All metal parts were stamped matching. Going first to the upper band, the number font looked pretty good, but the milled band did not have the E/63 on the right side, and the wear on this band was more severe than on the rest of the metal that was near mint. Lower band looked ok, but again missing the E/63.

I did not take the action out of the stock, and the owner said he had never had it apart, (couldn't get the upper band off).

About this time I tell the guy I was not interested, he asked for my evaluation of the rifle.
I told him the stock had been replaced, the original stock number sanded off, the entire stock sanded, and the eagles were fakes as was the "L". I explained this was pretty obvious as no way you have a sanded stock and yet the stock eagles are still crisp.
In addition this year stock should have an external serial number, and the takedown disc would be E/63 not E/214. I expect that the barrel bands were renumbered as their wear patterns did not match the overall condition of the rest of the metal and both lacked the expected E/63. Also the bayonet (correct in the white) had no waffenampt or SN.

As all the rest of the metal, bolt, receiver, triggerguard and floorplate looked good and had that deep early Mauser dark blue, my guess is that this was a nice matching mauser that was sportered in the past, and then went back to military configuration after K98k prices took off.
It is really too bad that whoever did it went bonkers with the Numrich Eagle stamp, as this could have been a decent early stock, even sanded, but the fake markings are now deeply impressed.

The guy is looking a little downfallen now, and confesses he paid $1100. at a local show about six months ago.

He wanted to know what actual value was? If my analysis is correct, that the stock and bands are replacements and have fake markings, the rest of the rifle is original and matching, I estimated $500. The rifle did have a mint bore.

I was not in a postion to take pictures, and about thirty seconds after seeing the rifle I knew I was not interested in it, so I didn't even write down the entire SN. the last two digits were 57 and it was a k suffix, 1938 Mauser.

I know it is difficult to critique my analysis without pics. Believe me, the stock eagles were direct from Numrich, the bands gave me pause, the number font looked good, but a 1938 should have waffenampts on them.
I think the rest of the rifle was legit, what did I miss? what do you think it is worth?
 

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Your A Little Low

While the buyer did get hosed you are a little low on your estimate. I would value a matching bolt 1938 42 code at $700.00 in the restored condition you described. It might have been a little more if the replacement stock were not sanded and stamped with numrich eagles.
 

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I follow auctions for items like these fairly closely as I prefer mismatched stock rifles to mismatched bolt rifles. Your estimate is pretty close to what rifles in this condition go for on Gunbroker:

1939 "27" Erma reworked stock with matching action (exc bolt release) - $425

1938 "42" Oberndorf sportorized stock matching action - $450

1934 Banner complete matching action no stock - $400

This does not capture every nuance with condition, rarety or collector desire, but it does indicate there is good demand for matching actions less stocks (or stocks with issues). If the action is as excellent as you describe, I think it would move quickly at that price.

The driving factor for this is probably the availability of stock sets from Europe. If one were to obtain one of these actions and a nice stock set for $200-$400, they would still be into a nice, manufacturer correct, rifle for under a $1,000. With complete, matching and original rifles easily going for $1,400-$2,000, this is not a bad alternative for a collector on a budget.
 

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M/M Bolt Versus M/M Stock

I have been following the auctionarms and gunbroker auctions for some time. A Bolt M/M with all else matching has been going for $600.00 - $800.00. A Stock M/M should be in the same range, maybe a $100.00 less. So it is not inconceivable for the Stock M/M 1938 code 42 to bring $700.00 on the high end IMHO. A common code all matching is bringing $1,100.00 - $1,300.00.
 

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It is nice to have a matching bolt on the rifle even if the stock doesn't match. To me it is more appealing. I also wouldn't sell either of mine for less than a bolt mismatch and I wouldn't be afraid to say I would value them more than a bolt mm. When a person picks the rifle up they look at the receiver s.n. and then the bolt s.n. so the bolt subconciously takes precedance over the stock imho. I know others view it differently and that is ok.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I thought some would think my valuation low. $500. is what I told him I think it is worth on the open market, to me it would be worth less.

I just don't see K98s moving in this area (Richmond Va.) at the prices people mention on the boards. I know an auction could well take this one above $500. The stock is the real distraction, the fake eagles jump out at you.
 

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runner you make a valid point that sticks to this situation especially. i in no way would value that rifle as a bolt mm simply because the fake stamp on the stock and you saying it is too deep to remove. the stock kills the price, period. one would have to invest into another stock and then try and recoup his money from the faked stock and state it is a fake stamp or seriously risk his reputation.

the action is probably worth at least $400 though and probably more? for a 38 m.o. i would probably pay the $400 for the action but i would need photos at least. your call on it but if you could get it for that amount i think it would be a good deal, not a great deal, but a good deal. maybe he could sell the stock on ebay?
 

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I don't think your valuation low, assuming nothing else is wrong I'd say you're right on.

To me it would be worth less as well.. stocks are much harder to find than actions (even nice ones) and it takes forever to find a proper stock. It’s easier (probably cheaper too) to find a nice stock and seek an action, than trying to re-stock a sportered 98k.

I probably get 2-3 guys a month asking if I have a stock or know where they can come by one, not once since I have been collecting has anyone asked for an action to fill a stock.

Anyway, too bad he had a bad experience with the $1100 rifle, it happens to everyone I suspect, it takes time to get experienced enough to minimize such things but most guys don't want to buy the books/BiO CD or learn first. Hopefully he will just get what he can and move on.

At least you told him the truth, - many wouldn't.



I thought some would think my valuation low. $500. is what I told him I think it is worth on the open market, to me it would be worth less.

I just don't see K98s moving in this area (Richmond Va.) at the prices people mention on the boards. I know an auction could well take this one above $500. The stock is the real distraction, the fake eagles jump out at you.
 

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simson,

that's funny that you say that i have 6 stocks awaiting actions and ALL NON norwegian stocks all vet or pre68 wood!!!! LOL

BCD4
SWP45
S147K
DOT44
237 1939 could be a 147 1938?
M48 for sniper project


later
vaughn
 

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LOL

I found a 1936 MO but was a norwegian and not for a simson :( for a allmost all matching action i found. since you have all those gew 98 stocks lying around happen to have any that would go good with that DWM 1918 we talked about??? decided on a gew sniper project and keep action as is. waiting for that guy in france to re-post a set of gew98 double side claw mounts!!!


later
vaughn
 
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