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Discussion Starter #1
Please bear with me on this question. I went to a gun show today and seen what looks like a Arisaka type 38 rifle. I know very little about those rifles and neither did the guy selling it. My question is the mum was the same size as others I have seen but it was a little bit different of a design that I cant describe. Did they have different mums on certain rifles? He wants 200.00 for it and the stock is really dinged up. Oh one other thing there was a few Japanese letters that was on the bottom of the stock that looked like they was written with a yellow paint stick.
 

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Hello FA/18 :
The mum is a roll stamping of a 16 petal flower, this is the symbol of the Emperor of Japan. It is 3/8 inch in diameter. Any time you see the mum but it is overstamped with 3 circles, a square / pentagon /, 2 concentric circles, little circles around the mum petals, all are indications that the rifle was taken out of military use for some other purpose.
Mums that are ground off, filed, hacked, punched out or disfigured it indicates that the rifle was among those that were surrendered at the end of the war.
Depending if the mum is untouched, if the bolt - floorplate are matching to the receiver serial number last 3 digits or internal assembly number, does it still have the cleaning rod and dust cover, series marking ?. All the above details will determine if the price is a steal or a fair one.
Vicasoto
 

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There are also a couple of Trainer rifles that have unusaul markings in place of the mum. It might be one of those.
 

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Don't the later Kokura Arsenal T-38 rifles (25th-28th Series) have mums that are slightly oblong in shape?

C/
 

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A slightly diffeent design mum? wow lots of options come to mind, training rifles, jinsen "ED" guns,tiensein 8 mm's ,NC19's, siamese arisakas and on and on. Along with all the stuff the other guys said tough call without more info, a common training rifle or over stamped t38 with a rough stock isnt worth $200 however some other stuff might be worth considerably more $$$.
 

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Mum shape

Seinen,
I have noticed some mums tend to look a little 'oblong'. I always thought this was related to the way they were stamped or rolled, or maybe even the degree of wear on the die when the mum was stamped.

A quick look at several 38s, shows two mums that are slightly longer fore and aft, than sideways; one is a 30th Jinsen, the other a 25th Kokura. Others seem perfectly round.
 

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A quick look at several 38s, shows two mums that are slightly longer fore and aft, than sideways; one is a 30th Jinsen, the other a 25th Kokura. Others seem perfectly round.
Yee, that's the effect I was attempting to describe. The difference in mum profile is even more pronounced in Kokura Arsenal T-99 rifles, as compared to the Nagoya mums.

C/
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited by Moderator)
Thanks for the information guys. I found the mum style on a auction on Gunbroker. The description said it has the mum given to schools. Im going to let this rifle go untill I get more education on these rifles. If anyone wants to see the one on ........ the item number is ........ Thanks again
 

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Thanks for the information guys. I found the mum style on a auction on Gunbroker. If anyone wants to see the one on Gunbroker the item number is 82247620. Thanks again

Did, or can, you get the serial number of the one you found? Some of us are studying these T-38 school rifles and might be able to use the additional information. Thanks!

C/
 

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FA/18,
I know you are just being helpful, but the rules do not allow links or promotion or listing the numbers of live auctions.

Seinen,
serial is 588,630, mum canceled with circles around the circumference.
 

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Seinen,
serial is 588,630, mum canceled with circles around the circumference.
03man,

I was referring to the T-38 rifle that FA/18 found at the gunshow. The one at auction is a repeated listing that has a very high reserve.

C/
 

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Discussion Starter #13
03 Man, sorry about that it wont happen again.

Seinen I dont remember what the serial number was on that 38 but if I see it or any others with that mum I will get them for you. Have a good weekend guys.
 

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Seinen I dont remember what the serial number was on that 38 but if I see it or any others with that mum I will get them for you. Have a good weekend guys.
Many thanks! I'm really only interested in information on the T-38 rifles with a "1/X" underneath the mum and/or the "00" serial number prefix. The "1/X" marking will look just like the one in that auction you posted. The mum may, or may not, be overstamped with small circles.

C/
 

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Here's a pic of a "stretched" mum from my collection as well as another trainer marking, the Nippon Special Steel.
 
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